Advice over cadence v. assist needed

[Burgo]

Absolute beginner question here as I'm looking to buy my first eMTB, but would really appreciate some advice, please. I'm keen on getting an H15, but the nearest dealer I can get a test ride is nearly 100km away, so wondered, before going there, if anyone could give me some advice / put me right,, over cadence / assist relationship on the Rise? I realise this may well come as a bit of daft question, but here we go..

Reason for asking is that I have to take a beta blocker that has the effect of dropping my max heart rate by an average of 15 bpm ( I had a bit of a blocked pipe issue that dynorod couldn't fix, so had to enjoy a short stay in ICU and a trip up to the big hospital to be stented etc, so am now on long term meds).

I've never ridden an ebike before - and on my old mtbs before taking the meds always tended to be more of a masher in a slightly higher gear than a spinner in a low gear (until the slope got gruesome) as I always ran out of air before I ran out of leg muscle (in hindsight that may have been telling me something!).

My concern is that with the Rise profile of having max assist at a cadence of 75 - 90 I'll potentially be struggling to get in the sweet spot for more than a short time time. Maybe worth adding that I am not looking to keep up with a load of mates - my riding these days is very much of a cruising around on trails and easy off road sections rather than hammering it up the hill with all the veins sticking out of my forehead and a face the colour of a slapped ar53.

If so, would profile 2 and judicious use of Boost, accepting the resulting reduction in range, give me more assist at a lower cadence? Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick as to how the whole assist thing chimes in? I know that at the end of the day I need to get a test ride and point it up a few hills to make sure its the right choice, but any help would really be appreciated. Thanks in advance...

 

[Mikerb]

I cannot answer your question a bout the Rise specifically but I would have thought a full powered EMTB would be better for you given your heart condition.
I can advise on Brose and Bosch powered EMTBs.The Brose motor in a Levo deliver good assist at lower cadences than the Bosch CX Gen4. In general however it is better both in terms of drivetrain longevity and power delivery, to spin rather than grind. Maybe you should take a look at the Levo?? On the Levo you can configure both pedal assist ( amount of power) and max power, on all 3 modes (ECO, Trail Turbo). When I had a Levo I used trail 99% of the time once offroad with occasional short bursts of turbo for the steepest climbs.

 

[RustyIron]

If so, would profile 2 and judicious use of Boost, accepting the resulting reduction in range, give me more assist at a lower cadence?

Yes, you can choose a taller gear, resulting in lower cadence and more assist.

Managing heart/lungs/legs is a thing for all riders, whether on an Amish Bike or eMTB. Sometimes I'll ride in a taller gear with more assist for a while in order to recover a bit, realizing that I'm burning through my battery more quickly.

 

[Pdoz]

I suspect you're thinking about the b blockers the wrong way. They don't stop your max cadence - if anything, they reduce your surge capacity - that ability to punch a bit harder for a short period at slower cadence.

So on the rise, spinning away with light leg pressure around 70 cadence will be great for you - come up against a short hill and YOU keep putting similar energy in but you are dropping back into the motors peak torque so it nudges you along. It'll feel like having an elastic band pulling you along.

It might be worth having a chat with your cardiologist about what your ideal output is and then backwards calculating which bike is going to match your needs best? ( keeping in mind you still need to toss the bike around) . As a.n example, if your legs can only punch out 125 w now then you're going to have to sacrifice feel for support, but if your legs are still punching out 250 w but your emotions want more speed , then a rise is going to feel great. Be honest with yourself about what you hope for - it's a great excuse to invest in a higher spec bike.

 

[steve_sordy]

I read somewhere on here, think it was a review by @Rob Rides EMTB, where an app linked to his Speccy Levo could be set to keep his heart rate restricted to a maximum. The app monitored his heart rate and adjusted the motor output to provide more assist as his heart rate rose toward the preset maximum. That would be worth a look at.

But I would not be concerned. Every emtb that you buy will have multiple modes from ECO all the way up to BOOST, some in three steps, some with five (might even be six!). If you find that at whatever speed/cadence combo you are comfortable with that you are struggling, just increase the assist level, like we all do!

 

[Mikerb]

I read somewhere on here, think it was a review by @Rob Rides EMTB, where an app linked to his Speccy Levo could be set to keep his heart rate restricted to a maximum. The app monitored his heart rate and adjusted the motor output to provide more assist as his heart rate rose toward the preset maximum. That would be worth a look at.

But I would not be concerned. Every emtb that you buy will have multiple modes from ECO all the way up to BOOST, some in three steps, some with five (might even be six!). If you find that at whatever speed/cadence combo you are comfortable with that you are struggling, just increase the assist level, like we all do!

Blevo Steve

 

[steve_sordy]

Blevo Steve

The difference between a Levo and Blevo has passed me by. I probably thought it was a typo.
But thanks for the info, I will go look it up now.

Edit: Hah! So a Blevo is the name of the app that provided the heart rate data, link etc. I thought you were telling me it was a different model of Levo!

 

[Jersey Skier]

The difference between a Levo and Blevo has passed me by. I probably thought it was a typo.
But thanks for the info, I will go look it up now.

Edit: Hah! So a Blevo is the name of the app that provided the heart rate data, link etc. I thought you were telling me it was a different model of Levo!

I have both pulmonary issues and I'm on a beta blocker. Blevo on the older Turbo Levos worked great. Note that it no longer works with Specialized's new TCU. While Specialized does sort of offer their version within it's Mission Control App, it reacts way to slow to changes in HR to be useful on the trails.

 

[Mikerb]

The difference between a Levo and Blevo has passed me by. I probably thought it was a typo.
But thanks for the info, I will go look it up now.

Edit: Hah! So a Blevo is the name of the app that provided the heart rate data, link etc. I thought you were telling me it was a different model of Levo!

 

[Mikerb]

I have both pulmonary issues and I'm on a beta blocker. Blevo on the older Turbo Levos worked great. Note that it no longer works with Specialized's new TCU. While Specialized does sort of offer their version within it's Mission Control App, it reacts way to slow to changes in HR to be useful on the trails.

The ally Levo models still use the original TCU so it will work with them.

 

[Tubby G]

You’d be surprised how much assistance the Rise provides. If you pedal slowly and climb at the speed of a normal bike, it’s really easy and not tiring at all. The slower pace suits us, it’s more sociable, chatting between trails. If you increase the cadence and climb quicker, the motor works a little harder too

I have a Rise and a full fat, and have hardly ridden the full fat since having the Rise, in fact only twice. In my opinion the full fat (Bosch Gen 4) is too much power and is unnecessary, unless you really want to blast around everywhere and climb every ascent like a rocket on crack

 

[Burgo]

I'd like to say thank you for everyone's comments and help regarding this. As suspected, there are slightly mixed views on this; I will just have to get a test ride booked for a decent period of time and hit a few hills to make my mind up for sure. I managed a max 10 Mets on a stress test a year after my incident, but that was without having done any serious exercise at all for that period apart from dog walking up around and about. I know I'm in much better nick now since then, as I'm back in the saddle on my analogue bikes both getting back into hill work on the MTB as well as just getting miles in on the road on an old hybrid. I do hope the assist profile for the Rise will work for me, as I do like the spec on these bikes and as regards Value For Money they seem to be right on point here in Spain.

 

[DaveW2]

Using Shimano's app, both the level of assist (motor output vs human output) and max torque can be adjusted for each of the three modes, and two such setups can be stored (profile 1 and 2). I'm sure you will find settings that suit your needs.

 

[mak]

I have a Rise and a full fat, and have hardly ridden the full fat since having the Rise, in fact only twice. In my opinion the full fat (Bosch Gen 4) is too much power and is unnecessary, unless you really want to blast around everywhere and climb every ascent like a rocket on crack

Interesting , ive been on the bosch gen 4 motor for nearly 3 years ( 2 bikes) . I dont need the range and never use turbo, to be honest i guess where i live its trail/xc riding.
I am seriously tempted buy the rise.

How would you compare the modes and power , bosch gen 4 on a 25 kg bike i can slog out a long 15/18 grade climb ( not technical ) in eco.
If i cant be arsed tour mode ( not tour plus) is all i need, its a power house of assistance.

I sort of feel I'm lugging about a big heavy bike and not using it so might get more enjoyment from a lighter less powered bike.
Saying all this it would be the orbea rise M10 in size medium i would go for but i cant but help think i should wait for the new Trek to appear 1st

 

[RebornRider]

One other thought about cadence. I have unusually short legs, which probably explains why my cadence is nearly always in the 80 to 90 range. That is the range that feels right. Based on watching riders in front of me, I don't think this is common, but it's possible you might find a cadence of 80 to be your sweet spot rather than something you're struggling to maintain. I feel like I'm working harder at 70 than at 80.

YCMV (your cadence may vary)

 

[Tubby G]

Interesting , ive been on the bosch gen 4 motor for nearly 3 years ( 2 bikes) . I dont need the range and never use turbo, to be honest i guess where i live its trail/xc riding.
I am seriously tempted buy the rise.

How would you compare the modes and power , bosch gen 4 on a 25 kg bike i can slog out a long 15/18 grade climb ( not technical ) in eco.
If i cant be arsed tour mode ( not tour plus) is all i need, its a power house of assistance.

I sort of feel I'm lugging about a big heavy bike and not using it so might get more enjoyment from a lighter less powered bike.
Saying all this it would be the orbea rise M10 in size medium i would go for but i cant but help think i should wait for the new Trek to appear 1st

On the Rise you can configure the power modes to how you like them, more torque, the time it takes for the power to kick in etc

I’d say that Eco feels like Eco on the Bosch, Trail is just like Tour, and Boost is a toned down version of Turbo

The modes probably don’t provide the same speed as the Bosch modes, but in terms of assistance, that’s how it feels to me

it’ll take a few rides to get used to compared to a full fat, and climbing is slower, but I’m never in a rush on the climbs anyway

 

[mak]

On the Rise you can configure the power modes to how you like them, more torque, the time it takes for the power to kick in etc

I’d say that Eco feels like Eco on the Bosch, Trail is just like Tour, and Boost is a toned down version of Turbo

The modes probably don’t provide the same speed as the Bosch modes, but in terms of assistance, that’s how it feels to me

it’ll take a few rides to get used to compared to a full fat, and climbing is slower, but I’m never in a rush on the climbs anyway

Thank you, sounds like my perfect bike but i think i might have to wait and have a nosey around the trek when it lands, although that's even less power than the rs unit .

 

[steve_sordy]

Thank you, sounds like my perfect bike but i think i might have to wait and have a nosey around the trek when it lands, although that's even less power than the rs unit .

Come on the Pines guided ride and you may get the chance to try out a few different bikes.