A new model of EMTB frame with Bosch / Shimano / Yamaha motor?

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Hi Jim,
I have many pleasure with LCFS947 MTB frame since 6 month and build an LCES004 with M510 motor. My question is why you don't use the LCFS947 geometry to develop a new EMTB frame?
the frame is modern but not agressiv and I think is a good start for your new development

you means the seat tube angel or the sharp? seat tube angle can not 77° as i said above, about the share, we have one like LCFS947, but ionly fit for shimano EP800 motor, and Darfon battery,

 

[Slaine]

you means the seat tube angel or the sharp? seat tube angle can not 77° as i said above, about the share, we have one like LCFS947, but ionly fit for shimano EP800 motor, and Darfon battery,

View attachment 89654

I means the reach is more longer on LCFS947 than any other LCF Emtb frame and chainstay lenght is less longer too.
I think in your future development, the goals is to have:
- 440 / 435mm chainstay lenght for all size
- 470 / 500mm reach, depend of the size
- 65 / 64 head tube angle
- 75 / 76 seat tu be angle
-160mm suspension frame
- mullet wheel

have this kind of geometry for more motor

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

I means the reach is more longer on LCFS947 than any other LCF Emtb frame and chainstay lenght is less longer too.
I think in your future development, the goals is to have:
- 440 / 435mm chainstay lenght for all size
- 470 / 500mm reach, depend of the size
- 65 / 64 head tube angle
- 75 / 76 seat tu be angle
-160mm suspension frame
- mullet wheel

have this kind of geometry for more motor

440 / 435mm chainstay length for all size, fit for mullet wheel is ok, but normally the bike shop get the frame with standard wheel, front and rear both are 29er or 650B, the length of chainstay is not enough,

 

[Slaine]

440 / 435mm chainstay length for all size, fit for mullet wheel is ok, but normally the bike shop get the frame with standard wheel, front and rear both are 29er or 650B, the length of chainstay is not enough,

Now all EBIKE, not light EBIKE, used the mullet wheel. I think it is not a big strategy risk to design this new frame with mullet wheel size

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Designed specifically for mullet wheel? I will submit it to the weekly seminar, but I think it is difficult , because we have to consider the quantity required for a mold,
Considering the 440mm length of a conventional 29er tire, if only the length of the chain stay is compressed, it will cause friction between the chain stay and the crank. It is necessary to change the position of the seat tube, the center of gravity of the BB, or even the entire center of gravity. The length of the chain stay of our enduro MTB frame LCFS947 is 440mm. We tried to use its structure to make an EMTB frame, but failed,

 

[Slaine]

Designed specifically for mullet wheel? I will submit it to the weekly seminar, but I think it is difficult , because we have to consider the quantity required for a mold,
Considering the 440mm length of a conventional 29er tire, if only the length of the chain stay is compressed, it will cause friction between the chain stay and the crank. It is necessary to change the position of the seat tube, the center of gravity of the BB, or even the entire center of gravity. The length of the chain stay of our enduro MTB frame LCFS947 is 440mm. We tried to use its structure to make an EMTB frame, but failed,

which precisely failed on this project to use LCFS947?

 

[Nobrks]

JimLee, I think you have received pretty valid feedback all pointing in the same direction, to make great geometri frame.
Though you mention that similar prototype with steep seat-tube angle, have not passed tests.
It does move the CG forward, but that is also the point for seated up-hill cykling.

I hope you will present in a near future, frame with a bit more aggressive geometry (Enduro/trail), than the current frames you have in your portfolio
BR

 

[karjalanpiirakka]

With the motor mounts, why not be the first to have a adapter option? I agree there will be some engineering challenges that mostly involve centering the drive shaft and of course other issues which go with it. However, if something like that could be done, it'll really help folks who are able to source these in the aftermarket and rest easy knowing that they have options. (On hindsight, I hope this doesn't sound totally idiotic).

 

[Slaine]

@JimLee-Lightcarbon , With the new M820 why don't you work on light emtb carbon frame?

 

[Mabman]

@JimLee-Lightcarbon , With the new M820 why don't you work on light emtb carbon frame?

I already inquired of Jim about this very fact and he is aware of it. But as described above the cost per frame to get going is pretty substantial and in order to really get Light Carbon to do a specific frame will entail a heft amount of support from the eMtb community. A carbon fiber M820 bike with modern geo would be the dogs bollox though!

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

The new EMTB frame fit for Bafang M820 motor is on designing, supper light, completed bike is about 18kgs,
motor is M820 250w, Battery is Bafang BT F14 410wh, But an expansion battery 200wh can be added on bottle cage,
185*55mm trunnion mount,
150-160mm travel,
max tire 29er*2.35.
also have the vesion fit for shomano EP8 motor and battery darfon which request MOQ 99sets, if you can get the motor and battery,
now the frame is waiting for confirmation from some of local ebike brand.
also have the E-gravel vision is waiting for buyers, the same motor and battery, weight of completed bike is about 9-10 kgs,

 

[Slaine]

The new EMTB frame fit for Bafang M820 motor is on designing, supper light, completed bike is about 18kgs,
motor is M820 250w, Battery is Bafang BT F14 410wh, But an expansion battery 200wh can be added on bottle cage,
185*55mm trunnion mount,
150-160mm travel,
max tire 29er*2.35.
also have the vesion fit for shomano EP8 motor and battery darfon which request MOQ 99sets, if you can get the motor and battery,
now the frame is waiting for confirmation from some of local ebike brand.
also have the E-gravel vision is waiting for buyers, the same motor and battery, weight of completed bike is about 9-10 kgs,

View attachment 99948

great news !!

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

the another version fit for Shimano Ep8 motor and Darfon battery E2C09 418wh.

 

[LAnton]

The new EMTB frame fit for Bafang M820 motor is on designing, supper light, completed bike is about 18kgs,
motor is M820 250w, Battery is Bafang BT F14 410wh, But an expansion battery 200wh can be added on bottle cage,
185*55mm trunnion mount,
150-160mm travel,
max tire 29er*2.35.
also have the vesion fit for shomano EP8 motor and battery darfon which request MOQ 99sets, if you can get the motor and battery,
now the frame is waiting for confirmation from some of local ebike brand.
also have the E-gravel vision is waiting for buyers, the same motor and battery, weight of completed bike is about 9-10 kgs,

View attachment 99948

The new EMTB frame fit for Bafang M820 motor is on designing, supper light, completed bike is about 18kgs,
motor is M820 250w, Battery is Bafang BT F14 410wh, But an expansion battery 200wh can be added on bottle cage,
185*55mm trunnion mount,
150-160mm travel,
max tire 29er*2.35.
also have the vesion fit for shomano EP8 motor and battery darfon which request MOQ 99sets, if you can get the motor and battery,
now the frame is waiting for confirmation from some of local ebike brand.
also have the E-gravel vision is waiting for buyers, the same motor and battery, weight of completed bike is about 9-10 kgs,

View attachment 99948

Will the frame be ready by spring 2023? Will the frame be available with a battery and a motor? Do you know the market value of the M820 motor?

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Will the frame be ready by spring 2023? Will the frame be available with a battery and a motor? Do you know the market value of the M820 motor?

Have too choices, one is fit for Shimano EP8 motor and Darfon E2C09 418wh. another is M820 motor and battery BT F014 410wh, both can add a extra battery about 210wh on the site of bottle cage,
Now still wait someone with a order quantity more than 50 sets,

 

[LAnton]

attached the draft

View attachment 87886

How is this position of the rear shock absorber better than your classic frames?

 

[LAnton]

Tell me the approximate size of the new frame. I want to check what size an additional battery can be installed.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Have too choices, one is fit for Shimano EP8 motor and Darfon E2C09 418wh. another is M820 motor and battery BT F014 410wh, both can add a extra battery about 210wh on the site of bottle cage,
Now still wait someone with a order quantity more than 50 sets,

View attachment 100962

Jim, try to position the charger socket higher up, here in the UK that position would be totally enveloped in mud and water for about 5 months of the year.

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

How is this position of the rear shock absorber better than your classic frames?

rear shock recommend 185*55 trunnion moun or 191*50 standard mount,
the size is about 280mm/ 290mm/ 200mm for size M, but can not sure now, maybe it will be changed in future,because if some big wholesaler want change some place, we will do it.

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Jim, try to position the charger socket higher up, here in the UK that position would be totally enveloped in mud and water for about 5 months of the year.

thanks for suggestion, we will try it.
However, generally speaking, the charging port is related to the design of the battery. Our development frame can only be made according to the existing battery. The frame adapts to the battery, not the battery adapts to the frame. After all, we do not have such quantity that the battery factory make the battery to fit our frames.

 

[LAnton]

rear shock recommend 185*55 trunnion moun or 191*50 standard mount,
the size is about 280mm/ 290mm/ 200mm for size M, but can not sure now, maybe it will be changed in future,because if some big wholesaler want change some place, we will do it.

Thanks. It will include an additional 10-13ah battery

 

[Waynemarlow]

thanks for suggestion, we will try it.
However, generally speaking, the charging port is related to the design of the battery. Our development frame can only be made according to the existing battery. The frame adapts to the battery, not the battery adapts to the frame. After all, we do not have such quantity that the battery factory make the battery to fit our frames.

I'm not sure that is the case, from memory I think you can simply put an extension cable between the battery cradle and wherever you want on the frame. Focus EBikes take it to the extreme in the photo below ( it works really well as you can fit the booster battery cable in here as well ) but my take on it would be just above the battery on the lower tube part of the frame.

As much as people want larger and larger batteries, most riders don't want any more than 3 hours riding and would prefer light weight bikes over large battery capacity. If you can fit a battery connector port that doubles up as the connection port for the bottle battery ( Specialized do this ) then you have taken the charge port from out of the muddy and water soaked area up to a more appropriate place.

 

[LAnton]

I don't understand why you should make a frame with a built-in battery if you don't make a light battery. All batteries are very heavy, they have aluminum cases. And you install a heavy battery in the frame. It is better then to make a frame with a removable battery. Loading the battery from the top or side. There is no need to make heavy fasteners in the battery frame. I would make a lightweight carbon fiber case for the battery and put the 21700 cells there. The 9ah battery will weigh 1700g. The 13.5ah battery will weigh 2300g. We are doing this now, removing the heavy case and fasteners and making light batteries ourselves.

 

[LAnton]

hi Jim ! I can't find anywhere carbon crank 160-170mm for bafang. M500, M820. You can reduce the weight by another 200g.

 

[LAnton]

What an interesting frame with a removable battery

 

[Bluicie]

The new EMTB frame fit for Bafang M820 motor is on designing, supper light, completed bike is about 18kgs,
motor is M820 250w, Battery is Bafang BT F14 410wh, But an expansion battery 200wh can be added on bottle cage,
185*55mm trunnion mount,
150-160mm travel,
max tire 29er*2.35.
also have the vesion fit for shomano EP8 motor and battery darfon which request MOQ 99sets, if you can get the motor and battery,
now the frame is waiting for confirmation from some of local ebike brand.
also have the E-gravel vision is waiting for buyers, the same motor and battery, weight of completed bike is about 9-10 kgs,

View attachment 99948

Any updates on this frame? And any updates on the 130mm M820 frame you talked about some time ago.

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

The ownership of both versions （EP8 and M820） of the frame has been bought by a brand bicycle shop, and some changes have been made in the appearance, The original version is waiting for wholesalers who can purchase more than 100 sets annually, to pay about USD$20000 as mold cost with three size. The company's top management decided not to launch the public version for the time being.
I'm sorry!
The cost of the mold is about 30000 dollars, which is more than our estimate. Our company does not want to bear the cost of the mold for too long, and we need the bulk buyer bear the cost of 20000 dollars. If it is sold publicly, although the unit price can be higher to share the mold cost, the sharing speed is too slow, because Bafang informed us that the capacity of M820 is insufficient temporarily, and now it is mainly sold to wholesalers,

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

I don't understand why you should make a frame with a built-in battery if you don't make a light battery. All batteries are very heavy, they have aluminum cases. And you install a heavy battery in the frame. It is better then to make a frame with a removable battery. Loading the battery from the top or side. There is no need to make heavy fasteners in the battery frame. I would make a lightweight carbon fiber case for the battery and put the 21700 cells there. The 9ah battery will weigh 1700g. The 13.5ah battery will weigh 2300g. We are doing this now, removing the heavy case and fasteners and making light batteries ourselves.

View attachment 101107

Dear Lanton, you should consider that not every buyer can DIY battery by themself, and for many buyers who have security concerns, they like to buy finished batteries, so they will be more reassured in terms of security. DIY experts can make batteries according to their own ideas, but as manufacturers, we must consider the ideas of most buyers.
Carbon fiber frame. In order to make it more solid in quality, we use high-pressure metal molds. The cost of a mold is very high, so it is impossible to make different battery choice for a frame model