700Wh Battery Capacity

[wackojacko007]

Hi, I recently purchased a 2021 turbo levo comp with 700Wh battery.

Mission control says 100% battery health but BLEvo app says max battery capacity is 641Wh - This is only 91% of advertised 700Wh capacity.

Anyone else have a similar issue with a brand new battery/bike?

 

[Globetrotter]

Hi, I recently purchased a 2021 turbo levo comp with 700Wh battery.

Mission control says 100% battery health but BLEvo app says max battery capacity is 641Wh - This is only 91% of advertised 700Wh capacity.

Anyone else have a similar issue with a brand new battery/bike?

Yes I have the very same issue! I just bought a brand new 700Wh battery for my 2019 Levo Expert which will only charge to 640Wh according to the BLevo App. Specialized are not being helpful (their workshop tester shows the battery is fine but does NOT show the Wh charge!) and they say they can't be responsible for what Blevo says.

But I do know that my 2.5 year old original battery (which died of water damage) could still reach 667Wh at that age and probably the full 700Wh when new. I have dozens of recent records on BLevo to prove this (those from the early days were lost with an old phone). But Specialized will only respond to data from Mission Control and that only shows you your Total Consumption at the end of your ride. (I mostly use BLevo as it gives me much more data and lets me train according to heart rate). But luckily I do have one record on Mission Control showing that I used 666Wh in a single ride when the battery was 6 months old. (I doubt I emptied it that time).

I also happen to know (from watching BLevo) that the BMS will shut the bike down when it gets down to 3%. This means that my old battery used to be able to provide a 679Wh ride when new and 645Wh when 2 years old. I ran the new battery flat on its 3rd ride and according to BLevo I used 621Wh (97%). So now I am planning to repeat that process and run the battery flat using Mission Control. I am expecting this to prove again that it only provides 621Wh. Then I will present this evidence to Specialized and see what they say.

 

[Globetrotter]

@PaoloBLEvo have you come across this issue before?

 

[wackojacko007]

Yes I have the very same issue! I just bought a brand new 700Wh battery for my 2019 Levo Expert which will only charge to 640Wh according to the BLevo App. Specialized are not being helpful (their workshop tester shows the battery is fine but does NOT show the Wh charge!) and they say they can't be responsible for what Blevo says.

But I do know that my 2.5 year old original battery (which died of water damage) could still reach 667Wh at that age and probably the full 700Wh when new. I have dozens of recent records on BLevo to prove this (those from the early days were lost with an old phone). But Specialized will only respond to data from Mission Control and that only shows you your Total Consumption at the end of your ride. (I mostly use BLevo as it gives me much more data and lets me train according to heart rate). But luckily I do have one record on Mission Control showing that I used 666Wh in a single ride when the battery was 6 months old. (I doubt I emptied it that time).

I also happen to know (from watching BLevo) that the BMS will shut the bike down when it gets down to 3%. This means that my old battery used to be able to provide a 679Wh ride when new and 645Wh when 2 years old. I ran the new battery flat on its 3rd ride and according to BLevo I used 621Wh (97%). So now I am planning to repeat that process and run the battery flat using Mission Control. I am expecting this to prove again that it only provides 621Wh. Then I will present this evidence to Specialized and see what they say.

Yes I have the very same issue! I just bought a brand new 700Wh battery for my 2019 Levo Expert which will only charge to 640Wh according to the BLevo App. Specialized are not being helpful (their workshop tester shows the battery is fine but does NOT show the Wh charge!) and they say they can't be responsible for what Blevo says.

But I do know that my 2.5 year old original battery (which died of water damage) could still reach 667Wh at that age and probably the full 700Wh when new. I have dozens of recent records on BLevo to prove this (those from the early days were lost with an old phone). But Specialized will only respond to data from Mission Control and that only shows you your Total Consumption at the end of your ride. (I mostly use BLevo as it gives me much more data and lets me train according to heart rate). But luckily I do have one record on Mission Control showing that I used 666Wh in a single ride when the battery was 6 months old. (I doubt I emptied it that time).

I also happen to know (from watching BLevo) that the BMS will shut the bike down when it gets down to 3%. This means that my old battery used to be able to provide a 679Wh ride when new and 645Wh when 2 years old. I ran the new battery flat on its 3rd ride and according to BLevo I used 621Wh (97%). So now I am planning to repeat that process and run the battery flat using Mission Control. I am expecting this to prove again that it only provides 621Wh. Then I will present this evidence to Specialized and see what they say.

Hi Globetrotter, sound like we have the same issue! Specialised have told me that they can do a battery diagnostic test but as you say this is not helpful.

Just to be clear when you say “run the battery flat using mission control” I assume you just mean record a ride using mission control then as you say, it will record battery going from 100% to 0% using xxxWh?

I have also experienced the BMS limiting (partially and completely) the motor output when the battery is <8% hence my confusion with the battery capacity!

Cheers,
Jacko

 

[Globetrotter]

Hi Globetrotter, sound like we have the same issue! Specialised have told me that they can do a battery diagnostic test but as you say this is not helpful.

Just to be clear when you say “run the battery flat using mission control” I assume you just mean record a ride using mission control then as you say, it will record battery going from 100% to 0% using xxxWh?

I have also experienced the BMS limiting (partially and completely) the motor output when the battery is <8% hence my confusion with the battery capacity!

Cheers,
Jacko

Note that BMS limits the battery use when below 10% to a low boost level but at 3% it shuts the motor down completely. I have seen this several times using BLevo. I can't remember what Mission Control shows while you are riding but the rides summaries I have from a couple of years back do not show any start or end %s. They just show Total Consumption. But my idea is that with a new battery this should reach 679Wh of actual use if you ride until it shuts off the motor, if it does indeed store 700Wh but keeps 3% in reserve. So if I run it until the BMS shuts it down I should be able to prove how much capacity my new battery really has by using their own app (even though BLevo shows me this clearly already!). I'm going to do this tomorrow so I'll let you know the result.

 

[wackojacko007]

Note that BMS limits the battery use when below 10% to a low boost level but at 3% it shuts the motor down completely. I have seen this several times using BLevo. I can't remember what Mission Control shows while you are riding but the rides summaries I have from a couple of years back do not show any start or end %s. They just show Total Consumption. But my idea is that with a new battery this should reach 679Wh of actual use if you ride until it shuts off the motor, if it does indeed store 700Wh but keeps 3% in reserve. So if I run it until the BMS shuts it down I should be able to prove how much capacity my new battery really has by using their own app (even though BLevo shows me this clearly already!). I'm going to do this tomorrow so I'll let you know the result.

Keen to hear the result! I should also do the same…good excuse to go for a 50km+ ride!

 

[Alexbn921]

Running the battery all the way down to shutoff damages it and significantly reduces the total number of life cycles.
Same for storing it at 100% charge. Every day stored at 100% cuts it's life down.

Batteries should be stored at 30-60% (3.8v per cell) and only charging to 100% before a ride. This will give you over a 1000 cycles to 90% degradation.

How you manage your battery has a huge effect on it's useful life.

Motor power is reduced at 15%.

 

[wackojacko007]

Running the battery all the way down to shutoff damages it and significantly reduces the total number of life cycles.
Same for storing it at 100% charge. Every day stored at 100% cuts it's life down.

Batteries should be stored at 30-60% (3.8v per cell) and only charging to 100% before a ride. This will give you over a 1000 cycles to 90% degradation.

How you manage your battery has a huge effect on it's useful life.

Motor power is reduced at 15%.

I understand that there are ways to maximise battery longevity and minimise damage. I am however talking about a brand new bike.

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

@PaoloBLEvo have you come across this issue before?

Which battery version is? Maybe BLEvo doesn't read correctly the wh value

 

[Grannyjones]

Running the battery all the way down to shutoff damages it and significantly reduces the total number of life cycles.
Same for storing it at 100% charge. Every day stored at 100% cuts it's life down.

Batteries should be stored at 30-60% (3.8v per cell) and only charging to 100% before a ride. This will give you over a 1000 cycles to 90% degradation.

How you manage your battery has a huge effect on it's useful life.

Motor power is reduced at 15%.

What a hassle trying to avoid storing the battery at 100% FFS

Tried it for a while then eventually thought "sod this" "too much hassle ontop of all the other bike hassle" "not convientant"

 

[DtEW]

What a hassle trying to avoid storing the battery at 100% FFS

Tried it for a while then eventually thought "sod this" "too much hassle ontop of all the other bike hassle" "not convientant"

As somebody with a rigid morning routine, I found it pretty easy for my bread-and-butter rides. I just plug-it-in the first thing I do as I roll out of bed. Then I have a leisurely morning routine and breakfast/coffee. By the time all the gear is gathered, the bike would have gained ~30% of charge to approach 90% SoC. This is almost always enough since I rarely finish my rides with less than 50% charge. I'm fine letting my bike sit without further battery maintenance if I finish my ride between ~75-45% of charge.

 

[Planemo]

I just plug-it-in the first thing I do as I roll out of bed. Then I have a leisurely morning routine and breakfast/coffee. By the time all the gear is gathered, the bike would have gained ~30% of charge to approach 90% SoC.

You will likely be doing far more damage to your battery by not charging it to 100% than anything you will gain from not keeping it at 100%.

All depends how often you do partial charges. I never go more than 2 without a full (balance) charge.

Balancing starts at around 95% SoC.

 

[DtEW]

You will likely be doing far more damage to your battery by not charging it to 100% than anything you will gain from not keeping it at 100%.

All depends how often you do partial charges. I never go more than 2 without a full (balance) charge.

Balancing starts at around 95% SoC.

My battery remains at 100% health after 38 rides (and at least that number of partial charging sessions), ~500 miles, ~75K of cumulative elevation gain, and "12 charge cycles" (Suggesting that on-average each ride involves a 31.6% charge cycle, which is in-line with my forementioned adding of ~30% charge during the course of my morning routine.)

I'll let the group know when the "far more damage" starts to show up.

 

[Planemo]

"12 charge cycles"

Charge cycles doesn't mean a lot, it's a rudimentary calculator which simply adds up the total Wh charged Vs the rated battery capacity. It takes no account of how much of that time has been spent balancing so in reality it means sweet FA. Neither would I trust a 'health' indicator.

Do what you wanna do, no problem. But our packs only start balancing right at the end of the CC phase, thats a fact. You are welcome to take it as garbage though.

No need for the sarky comment about letting the group know when damage shows up.

 

[DtEW]

No need for the sarky comment about letting the group know when damage shows up.

You can read that as snarky, or simply a promise to report back if my usage proves your predictions-of-doom correct or otherwise.

 

[Mcharza]

In several threads, I’ve noticed that some Americans respond in a really offensive way. Where are the manners?

 

[DtEW]

In several threads, I’ve noticed that some Americans respond in a really offensive way. Where are the manners?

Have you noticed that some people take easy offense, yet in the same breath will do offensive things, like group others to insinuate that a whole group of people might be rude/bad/undesirable/etc?

Because if I am being rude, it’s not because I’m American. You really have no clue what my cultural background is, if it at all determines how I respond to a disagreement/conflict.

You could’ve just directed your criticism at me (and whoever else you felt was uncouth), instead of being cowardly and hoping to draw popular support using stereotypes.

 

[KennyB]

I hate it when the grown ups argue.

 

[Alexbn921]

What a hassle trying to avoid storing the battery at 100% FFS

Tried it for a while then eventually thought "sod this" "too much hassle ontop of all the other bike hassle" "not convientant"

I have a wifi wall plug that I plug my charger into. $7 on amazon. When I get home from a ride I plug it in and tell google on my phone to turn it off in X number of minutes so its at storage voltage.

If I want to ride first thing in the morning at night I tell my phone turn it on before I get up. If I'm at work and want to ride when I get home I push the button and it turns on.

I'm an electrical engineer and have been a RC battery nerd for 30 years. Nothing destroys a battery faster than being left at full charge or over discharging it. If you stop charging at 4.1 vs 4.2 your number of cycle increases by a factor of 5. Specialize is conservative in there battery management and stop charging a 4.16, which gives good total capacity and long life.

Storing your bike at 60% is right at 3.85v per cell and will give it the longest life. This is imperative for longer periods where you lose capacity at full charge.

Batteries are expensive and I expect to get 10+ years out of my battery at greater than 90% life. If you always full charge and leave on the charger that will be reduced to 3-5 years.

100% battery life on the app means nothing and is just there to give people a warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[Globetrotter]

I did a ride from 100% battery until the Mission Control showed 3% battery and the motor shut off. The Mission Control ride record says I used 690Wh. (Which suggest the actual capacity is 711Wh!) I can imagine that there is no point in speaking any further to Specialized since their app suggests the battery is perfect. I will log a query with the BLevo forum to see if they can explain this. My guess is that the firmware on the new battery is different to the old one so perhaps BLevo is not reading it correctly....

 

[Globetrotter]

Which battery version is? Maybe BLEvo doesn't read correctly the wh value

I don't know how to describe the version but all the details are here from both apps

 

[Planemo]

I have a wifi wall plug that I plug my charger into. $7 on amazon. When I get home from a ride I plug it in and tell google on my phone to turn it off in X number of minutes so its at storage voltage.

Yeah, they are handy. Even better, the app for my electric unicycle links to the plug and you can tell it to switch off after a certain amount of Wh has gone in. Makes it a bit easier to get to/calculate storage charge than guessing how much time it will take.

If I want to ride first thing in the morning at night I tell my phone turn it on before I get up. If I'm at work and want to ride when I get home I push the button and it turns on.

Yeah same here, especially if I am going riding later the next day but not late enough to start charging when I get up. Of course we can just switch on when we go to bed but if thats say 10pm (I know I'm old) it will be charged by 3am so the battery is sitting fully soaked until say 1pm. Sounds a bit OCD to save the battery sitting fully charged for 10 hours but as you say these batts really don't like it and it's no big deal for me to do it the way I do.

Nothing destroys a battery faster than being left at full charge or over discharging it. If you stop charging at 4.1 vs 4.2 your number of cycle increases by a factor of 5.

Very true, but thats assuming they are balanced in the first place. Given balancing doesn't happen until the 1st cell hits 4.2v (or whatever the manufacturer has decided), any charging less than say 90~95% won't even be engaging the balancing circuitry.

Storing your bike at 60% is right at 3.85v per cell and will give it the longest life. This is imperative for longer periods where you lose capacity at full charge.
Batteries are expensive and I expect to get 10+ years out of my battery at greater than 90% life. If you always full charge and leave on the charger that will be reduced to 3-5 years.
100% battery life on the app means nothing and is just there to give people a warm fuzzy feeling.

Agreed on all of that!

 

[Globetrotter]

Keen to hear the result! I should also do the same…good excuse to go for a 50km+ ride!

I've just heard back from Paolo at BLEvo as follows "The battery version 2.5.4 is not handled correctly.. I will fix the issue soon... sorry"

 

[Binhill1]

My battery shows 100 percent health after 160 charges if i remember correctly. 2 and a half years old 4600 miles. I try to stick to charging advice on here. Probably guilty of fully charging if intending going out again next day and somtime not going. When levo was new and i wanted to test max milage i got 42 miles and 1000m climbing with 9 percent left using eco all the time . So about three months ago i put back to same recomended settings did 30 miles of same route and still had forty three percent left so no loss yet it seems. So i must be doing something right.