2022 Zeb Ultimate not at all plush.. how to fix?

[Rod B.]

Thanks for really good info.

Also, at least my Zeb Ultimate 2023 does the following.

When I slowly let the air out, it sucks itself in. After that, you have to forcefully pull it to its full length, letting the air out of the negative side.
I do this from time to time and sometimes it's really tight.

After this, when you add air to the desired pressure, the fork works sensitively again.

Mcharza,

There are a number of reasons for "Fork Suck Down." I've experienced the issue on several occasions. If the factory over greases the air spring piston it can cause a suck down issue due to too much grease.

Every air chamber/air spring fork, has a "Negative" and "Positive" side to the air chamber/air spring. The two chambers must be balanced. Most of the time, when I've encountered suck down, its because I was in a hurry after reassembling a fork and did not adequately cycle the fork up and down to balance out the two air chambers as I pumped the fork back up. If you have air bleed ports on your fork, they will help with balancing the air chambers.

There are other issues that can also cause chronic fork suck down, this includes a bad O Ring on the air spring shaft or air piston, etc. Instead of writing a novel, here's a good video on "Fork Suck Down."


Be safe,
Rod

 

[Rod B.]

I am 77kg run 27% sag and most definitely need a volume spacer (im on 2023 zebs)to get the the plushness on the initial stroke that i want and the bottom out performance that i also want. I do bottom my forks out and have them set up to to get approximately 80% travel during "normal" riding, get to 90% when its getting roudy and bottom out on my hardest reasonable hit.

I have a mate who is 67kg and needs to run no volume spacer to be able bottom his fork.

Here's my bottom out drop. I set my forks up to soft bottom if i run a bit long and run to 95% if i land this smooth.
Its about a 12 foot drop onto a not very steep landing. So it is fairly harsh and a good test to set up a fork at the upper limits.
View attachment 145591

I find it amazing that people can have wildly different experiences around the world on the exact same fork...
All I can conclude is that the riding styles are wildly different and the fork is more optimized for one style than the other.

As an example I think the zebs are god damn amazing. I can get them plush as and also ramp up to take the big hits. For lighter or less aggressive riders maybe they are sub optimal as they are more optimized around aggressive riding?

Plummet,
That is a badass drop, very nice. What's the bike? New Zealand has all the fun. Unfortunately, my jumping days are over.

 

[RustyIron]

Most of the time, when I've encountered suck down, its because I was in a hurry after reassembling a fork and did not adequately cycle the fork up and down to balance out the two air chambers as I pumped the fork back up

Bwahahaha! I thought I was the only dummy to do that. And don't tell anyone, but once I uber-lubed the air piston. The resulting feel of the suspension was... sub-optimum.

 

[Rod B.]

Bwahahaha! I thought I was the only dummy to do that. And don't tell anyone, but once I uber-lubed the air piston. The resulting feel of the suspension was... sub-optimum.

RustyIron, me and the boys on Gooseberry Mesa.

 

[Plummet]

Plummet,
That is a badass drop, very nice. What's the bike? New Zealand has all the fun. Unfortunately, my jumping days are over.

View attachment 145601

The bike is a 2017 Rockymountain slayer mtb. Yikes, that ankle reconstruction does not look like fun!

He's me doing that same track on the E. The drop in question is the first big drop i slow down for.

Thats the most hectic jump/drop/structure track I ride. Its just a full on minute of thread the needle features than you need to be so precise on. Too fast, too slow, fade to the left, fade to the right all goes bad real fast... But man, when i pull off a full smooth run like in the video, holy shit am i stoked. Its at the bleeding edge of what i'm prepared to ride.

 

[Dax]

I think the zebs are god damn amazing. I can get them plush as and also ramp up to take the big hits. For lighter or less aggressive riders maybe they are sub optimal as they are more optimized around aggressive riding?

Agreed. I spent about 5 minutes setting up my ‘23 zeb ultimates 18 months ago and haven’t touched them since. Roughly set the sag, set compression open. Guessed at rebound. Nfi how many tokens are in them. They ride amazing.

Could do with a bit more suppleness off the top, but that gets forgotten 30s into the first descent.

My ohlins are overall more plush, but much more drama to set up and maintain

 

[Arethustra]

Why yes I was, and I did. The Fox 38 on my Tracer 279 now has a Secus AND Runt installed. I’ve got a few rides on it with them both being installed. They do work together, but the runt requires fine tuning unlike the Secus. So I’m still playing with Hi and Low pressures.
My 190mm ZEB Ultimate (Secus & MRP Ramp Control) still feels plusher than my 180mm FOX 38 (Secus & Runt), but I’m sure the extra weight of the Crestline makes for a plusher fork compared to a non emtb. Both forks have fresh service/seals.

Awesome! I knew I could count on you to help me spend more money.

 

[AlumiPro]

Awesome! I knew I could count on you to help me spend more money.

Well I’m not saying it’s worth the cost of having the two on one fork. I need to do more testing, there’s definitely a lot of mid stoke support with a Runt & Secus installed on a Fox 38. I have found zero info online of anyone installing a Secus & Runt together on the same fork. It’ll be neat to get it feeling good, then remove the Runt to feel it again with just the Secus. As I can’t be comparing it to my EMTB ZEB w/Secus…..too dissimilar. And the FOX Runt won’t thread into the ZEB, I would need to buy another Runt for the ZEB.
I do like that the Secus can be transferred to different bikes / forks, you just need the correct foot stud for each fork manufacturer, which can be cheaply purchased separately from Vorsprung. The Secus currently installed on my Tracer 279 Fox 38, I had previously installed on a Turbo Levo Fox 38. The Secus are all tuned the same. The Runt are tuned per fork travel length and threaded to each Fork manufacturers threads……not easily interchangeable.
Overall I like the ZEB Ultimate more than the Fox 38. I recently purchase another ZEB Ultimate…..thinking about the next build

 

[Arethustra]

Why yes I was, and I did. The Fox 38 on my Tracer 279 now has a Secus AND Runt installed. I’ve got a few rides on it with them both being installed. They do work together, but the runt requires fine tuning unlike the Secus. So I’m still playing with Hi and Low pressures.
My 190mm ZEB Ultimate (Secus & MRP Ramp Control) still feels plusher than my 180mm FOX 38 (Secus & Runt), but I’m sure the extra weight of the Crestline makes for a plusher fork compared to a non emtb. Both forks have fresh service/seals.

I think I’m going to give it a whirl. Oh, did you see that they’re shipping the Telum now? Wonder if it would fit on the Crestline?

 

[AlumiPro]

I think I’m going to give it a whirl. Oh, did you see that they’re shipping the Telum now? Wonder if it would fit on the Crestline?

Yeah, I’m going to try the 205x65 Telum on a new build. I’ve been trying to find YouTube reviews on it but it’s so new there aren’t any! But I have full trust in Vorsprung.

 

[Arethustra]

Wonder if the new Telum will fit the Crestline?

 

[Rod B.]

The bike is a 2017 Rockymountain slayer mtb. Yikes, that ankle reconstruction does not look like fun!

He's me doing that same track on the E. The drop in question is the first big drop i slow down for.

Thats the most hectic jump/drop/structure track I ride. Its just a full on minute of thread the needle features than you need to be so precise on. Too fast, too slow, fade to the left, fade to the right all goes bad real fast... But man, when i pull off a full smooth run like in the video, holy shit am i stoked. Its at the bleeding edge of what i'm prepared to ride.

Plummet, that was an awesome video. Yep, no more of those big jumps for me. I was off my bike for 18 months because of the ankle. Doctors said I'd never ride my mountain bike again...F that.... I now gravitate towards technical rock riding which I really like. You're right, when you connect a line just right, it's such a great feeling. Its why we do what we do.

Be safe,
Rod

 

[AlumiPro]

Wonder if the new Telum will fit the Crestline?

I’m sure it will fit. It has the same footprint/shape as most other coil shocks. I’ve been able to get ahold of Vorsprung in the past via phone and email. I’m happy with my e-Storia on my Crestline, otherwise I would buy a Telum for it. The squish sound the EXT makes is a bonus too…..it helps mute the annoying Bosch rattle while descending.

 

[Plummet]

Plummet, that was an awesome video. Yep, no more of those big jumps for me. I was off my bike for 18 months because of the ankle. Doctors said I'd never ride my mountain bike again...F that.... I now gravitate towards technical rock riding which I really like. You're right, when you connect a line just right, it's such a great feeling. Its why we do what we do.

Be safe,
Rod

Yeah man, I love the tech too. You can play endlessly in the tech. He's some pics from trip i did to tassie last year. That was rock slab heavenly goodness.

Which also makes setting my suspension on super import and difficult. Because I have the big hit requirements of the jump/drop runs, then the tech requirements that require supple suspension and then I also need the mid range support for chunk.

 

[Arethustra]

I’m sure it will fit. It has the same footprint/shape as most other coil shocks. I’ve been able to get ahold of Vorsprung in the past via phone and email. I’m happy with my e-Storia on my Crestline, otherwise I would buy a Telum for it. The squish sound the EXT makes is a bonus too…..it helps mute the annoying Bosch rattle while descending.

View attachment 145610

Argh! Hit post on the wrong window…was actually wondering how much of a PITA it will be to adjust the coil based on access with the Crestline to the bottom mount. Guess you won’t be making those adjustments very often so probably not worth worrying about. Are you running the bearing mount on your EXT coil?

 

[AlumiPro]

Argh! Hit post on the wrong window…was actually wondering how much of a PITA it will be to adjust the coil based on access with the Crestline to the bottom mount. Guess you won’t be making those adjustments very often so probably not worth worrying about. Are you running the bearing mount on your EXT coil?

The Sprindex spring can be installed either way. I installed one on my Tracer 279 in the same orientation it would need to be in on the Crestline.
I’m running the 8 x 30mm FOX bearing on my Tracer 279 and Crestline, as it keeps VPP style suspension setups cycling smooth.

 

[Dax]

Which also makes setting my suspension on super import and difficult. Because I have the big hit requirements of the jump/drop runs, then the tech requirements that require supple suspension and then I also need the mid range support for chunk.

This is why I like the ohlins and cane creek kitsuma coil on my patrol. Wind on a couple of clicks more compression on the shock for more pop on jumpy trails, soften it up for tech. Add a bit more ramp pressure on the fork to reduce bottoming out for jumps, less for more absorption on tech.

Of course my e-bike was set when I bought it and just gets smashed down stuff regardless. Poor KSL. Shows how versatile the zeb ultimate is

 

[Arethustra]

The Sprindex spring can be installed either way. I installed one on my Tracer 279 in the same orientation it would need to be in on the Crestline.
I’m running the 8 x 30mm FOX bearing on my Tracer 279 and Crestline, as it keeps VPP style suspension setups cycling smooth.

View attachment 145630

Ah, yes I see now. Dammit that just cost me $1200.

 

[AlumiPro]

Ah, yes I see now. Dammit that just cost me $1200.

Only $1200…..you mean you didn’t also purchase a Secus!
I told Vorsprung that I’m looking forward to when they create their own fork!….maybe inverted with a built in Secus
They made it sound like a fork build may be in their future.

 

[Arethustra]

Well, $725 CAD - Only $200 USD for the Telum Pre-Order...so I get to wait for the other $1K to hit.

 

[Plummet]

This is why I like the ohlins and cane creek kitsuma coil on my patrol. Wind on a couple of clicks more compression on the shock for more pop on jumpy trails, soften it up for tech. Add a bit more ramp pressure on the fork to reduce bottoming out for jumps, less for more absorption on tech.

Of course my e-bike was set when I bought it and just gets smashed down stuff regardless. Poor KSL. Shows how versatile the zeb ultimate is

Yeah, I go through a bracketing process setting up my forks, coil shocks are custom tuned so no need to bracket. Then once set up to withstand my small bump, midrange and bottom out requirements i leave the suspension the fuck alone.

I dont twiddle knobs after set up.

 

[Dax]

Yeah, I go through a bracketing process setting up my forks, coil shocks are custom tuned so no need to bracket. Then once set up to withstand my small bump, midrange and bottom out requirements i leave the suspension the fuck alone.

I dont twiddle knobs after set up.

If the type of trail varies, I like having the option to tune to it. Adding some compression to take out the compliance and add pop for jumps is very useful.

 

[Plummet]

If the type of trail varies, I like having the option to tune to it. Adding some compression to take out the compliance and add pop for jumps is very useful.

Not me, I set up my suspension for the riding I do. Then set and forget.
I chase the optimal setting that does it all.

I have mates you change settings all the time. Not me on any given ride I could be sending massive jumps and drops then very next run roll down the tech that requires ultra supple set up.
Sometime it's on the same run.... full on jumps the straight into crazy tech. ....

 

[Arethustra]

I think I’m going to give it a whirl. Oh, did you see that they’re shipping the Telum now? Wonder if it would fit on the Crestline?

Secus goes on tomorrow along with the 3.1 Charger upgrade and a King Can for SDLX Ultimate (while I'm waiting for the Tellum). Should be a plush day tomorrow.

 

[AlumiPro]

Secus goes on tomorrow along with the 3.1 Charger upgrade and a King Can for SDLX Ultimate (while I'm waiting for the Tellum). Should be a plush day tomorrow.

My Telum is tuned and ships out tomorrow, so you should be getting yours soon!
I have the 3.1 Charger upgrade kit but not sure it’s something I want to tackle myself. Are you having a shop install your 3.1 upgrade kit?

 

[Arethustra]

Yes, I found an independent mobile repair guy and had him do all three. I'm good doing everything else, but I draw that line at suspension; too much chance I will fuck it up... It took him about 5 hours to do all three, but he did a solid job; no complaints, and I will have him back to throw on the Tellum when I get there...speaking of...

I also heard from Vorsprung today, and it looks like Tellum is going out tomorrow or the next day. Woo hoo... I guess I'll wait a bit to put it on now that I have the King Can on SDLX Ult. Only fair to see how it performs. I haven't aired up the fork properly yet to test the Runt + Secus combo, but even with incorrect pressure, the thing feels like it's going to be ultra plush...lol, the world's most expensive fork.

 

[Arethustra]

Whelp, I can confirm that if you throw a stupid amount of money in the form of upgrades (i.e., 3.1 Damper upgrade, a DSD Runt, and a Vorsprung Secus) at an already amazing fork like the Zeb, you basically get an amazing plush fork that feels great off the top, in the middle and provides so much better traction that it feels like you're on a totally different bike.

I ran it through the worst lines I could find in the rock gardens on my ride tonight and it was kinda crazy how good it felt.

Was it worth all the extra money? Seems like it so far.

 

[brbr]

nice post, I have a 23 ZEB ultimate and I can't find the right settings... I'm 70Kgs, I ride light, no bag packs or heavy things and my bike a mid power sub 20kg ...
I was about to give up the ZEB for a Lyrik, I've tried to run 50psi, but it's the same issue, it feels hard and I never bottom out, even on medium gaps. Maybe it's too big for me and how I ride ?
I do ride hard on technical rock gardens and gaps, but no big jumps

 

[Arethustra]

What are your current settings (HSC/LSC/Reb)? What's your current Sag? What size is the fork? Do you have the bleed valves on your Zeb? How many hours on the fork? What are you running in the rear? And what are the settings there? Does the rear shock feel good?

I have something I've been working on that I'll post in a little bit that is designed for just these sorts of situations; I just lost power, so I need to switch over to the generator, and then I'll get it posted.

 

[Arethustra]

Found this setup video on YouTube and it’s basically what I was going to recommend you do, so I’m going to be lazy and just share the video instead.

And, if you don’t have any tokens installed and skip the first part about taking them out, don’t forget to use the bleeder valves on your lowers.

I will say that I don’t use Trailhead for anything other than starting pressure and even then I typically tweak it down a bit but that’s just me.