2020 LEVO or DECOY?

[Portland 29er]

I'm looking at both of these bikes in the $6000 range and I'm having a hard time deciding. I recently demoed a Levo and loved it, but the Decoy is better specced for the same price. Most of my riding is trail, but I want to do longer days and bigger downhill stuff in the future so the Decoy seems like a good fit. That being said, I'm leaning toward the Levo due to the higher battery capacity and bike shop support, but for the price, the Decoy seems like a better deal.

 

[cozzy]

Shop support is a big plus. Mine has been in twice in 8 days of ownership.
I would not buy an ebike without local support.

 

[stiksandstones]

@cozzy I have a levo, which I assume you have...had it for about 4 months, been riding it hard, not one issue-motor has been a dream. That being said, I really wanted the Decoy-but didnt want to wait for the battery wH upgrade. Both nice bikes, I demo'd a decoy, it was pretty sweet.

 

[Portland 29er]

@cozzy I have a levo, which I assume you have...had it for about 4 months, been riding it hard, not one issue-motor has been a dream. That being said, I really wanted the Decoy-but didnt want to wait for the battery wH upgrade. Both nice bikes, I demo'd a decoy, it was pretty sweet.

I have demo’d A Levo and loved it, but the specs on the Decoy are amazing for the price. What were the main differences between the two bikes? Was the Levo significantly better? Why did you go with the Levo over the decoy?

 

[comtn]

The motor and battery integration are the main differences. I believe the Brose motor to be a better refined package than the Shimano. The Shimano motor is noticeably more noisy. The decoy spec is amazing. If they integrated the battery and if Shimano released a higher torque motor I would be in on the decoy in a heartbeat. The Shimano motor is 4 years old. Brose has updated theirs a couple times since then.

I’m trying to find a deal on a ‘19 Levo. The sticker prices are outrageous on the expert.

 

[Portland 29er]

The motor and battery integration are the main differences. I believe the Brose motor to be a better refined package than the Shimano. The Shimano motor is noticeably more noisy. The decoy spec is amazing. If they integrated the battery and if Shimano released a higher torque motor I would be in on the decoy in a heartbeat. The Shimano motor is 4 years old. Brose has updated theirs a couple times since then.

I’m trying to find a deal on a ‘19 Levo. The sticker prices are outrageous on the expert.

Great insight, thank you! The motor is obviously important on these bikes and I agree, the Levo pedaled very naturally yet had power when needed. Looks like the Levo is the way to go!

 

[Alex @ PLANET3.bike]

Looks like the Levo is the way to go!

Well, at least until your belt goes to hell and you're left for dead. This seems to be happening worldwide, too. Some people are on their 3rd or 4th motors for the Levo. This has become such a problem that there's a shortage of motors globally. So - your "shop support" suddenly comes down to "We've been e-mailing Specialized twice a week and there's just no motors. Terribly sorry." for whatever that's worth to you sitting at home looking at a motor-less frame. Until there's an official motor revision dealing with the belt issues, I would stay away from it.

That being said, Decoy is an even worse option. This one is annoying when everything works! Mostly because the Shimano system has proven itself to be jerky, jittery and LOUD when compared to Brose. But, that's not all! My aluminium 2019 Levo (specced equally to a Decoy but with a 700 Wh battery) weighs in at 22,9 kg, while the Decoy CF Pro Race in full carbon with a 500 Wh battery weighs in at 24 kg (both in XL, both tubeless etc). My issues with it don't really stop here as it has the stupidest design I have seen out of "modern" bikes - this being a 3/4 open profile of the downtube where the battery goes. Even though this looks "fine" when you're looking at it from the outside - it makes for a terribly soft carbon frame. If you are a human male of non-insignificant weight and you just sit on it and press one of the pedals while the other foot is on the ground - you can see the bottom bracket move laterally. Just as it did on a very thin and light Trek Fuel EX from 2012. The whole connection of the rear end to the front makes for a flexy bike and I severely dislike the rear 2.8" tire for anything but ascending. It's just a balloon that hops around in an unpredictable way if pressurized to a value that will avoid rim damage. Otherwise it folds over itself if you ride it at a "comfortable" pressure. Next comes the seat tube angle in the "low" position which IN MY OPINION makes the bike unusable for anything other then riding downhill. You are so much rearwards that your twat hurts like hell if climbing anything steep and you're at the limit of FOX Transfer seat inclination adjustment. Putting weight on the front wheel is also severely difficult and you end up wheeling and coming off the bike as it starts to flip backwards. The saddle itself is also a nightmarish product. Immediately replaced by a Specialized Henge in a proper width. Next "low" position problem is the 165 mm Shimano cranks, well, and the whole bottom bracket height - with which you strike shit even when you're completely flat on your pedals. Annoying as hell. Once you put the bike into "high" geometry configuration - it suddenly becomes usable on the uphills and remains ride-able on the downhills, without as many pedal strikes but still nowhere nearly as good as the Levo with 150 mm cranks.

Most online reviews will tell you "oh it's a more downhilly oriented bike and if you ride trails it can do that too but just not as good maybeee lalalalala". No. This is absolute someone-paid-me-to-say-it-or-I'm-just-a-complete-moron nonsense. The bike is utter crap when compared to others I've been able to ride for days on end.

Conclusion based on what I've been able to ride so far: get a Pivot Shuttle or live in constant fear of your Levo suddenly dying. It's better at almost everything than the other two (except the noisy Shimano).

I haven't had a chance to try a Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay and would very much like to, but that won't be happening soon. It also has some problems with their torque sensor system but this looks like it might be sorted out for 2019 and onwards. Geometry wise, it might be the best of all mentioned.

 

[ninjichor]

700 Wh battery is compelling for sure. Just finished a 50 mi 3000' ride and am planning more rides like this, and the estimated range listed on the Shimano systems top out at about that.

 

[paquo]

Conclusion based on what I've been able to ride so far: get a Pivot Shuttle or live in constant fear of your Levo suddenly dying. It's better at almost everything than the other two (except the noisy Shimano).
.

i rode a shuttle and it was brilliant except the power delivery was so jerky on/off throttle, i just assumed all shimano motors were like that but in retrospect they couldn't be that bad, right? Anyway the brose was way more refined in this respect so i jumped, now i make sure i go early in the morning on long rides in case the levo blows up and i have to walk out

 

[comtn]

Great insight, thank you! The motor is obviously important on these bikes and I agree, the Levo pedaled very naturally yet had power when needed. Looks like the Levo is the way to go!

If you can stomach the price and or get a deal the Levo seems to be the best option for trail riding. I have a ‘18 Levo and didn’t want to go backwards on the motor. Eventually I suspect the direct to consumer brands like YT will provide more value and win but for now the dealer network and motor package seems to lean towards the Levo as the smart money. Patiently waiting to see what the 2020 Kenevo looks like.

 

[Rusty]

I have both a 2019 Scott eGenius with Shimano e8000 and a 2019 Levo Comp with the Brose.
Being brutally honest, the Shimano motor is loud for an eMTB these days. Saying that, it is quieter than the 2019 Bosch CX ( the 2020 is quieter) and way quieter than the Yamaha motor.
If it was not for the 700Wh battery available for the Levo I would not have gone anywhere near a Specialized as they are about $2K overpriced IMHO.
If Shimano had a 700Wh battery available I would have not bothered. However the 2020 Scotts will come with the new Bosch motor and a 625Wh battery.

Now, for a bike I would buy today if I could get my hands on one - a Patrol E-Six ... with a Shimano e8000 motor. Patrol do not use the standard Shimano batteries and have this with a 625Wh battery which would give my fat butt enough range for pretty much any rides I have not done due to only getting 40km out of the 500Wh battery.

I agree with @Alex @ PLANET3.bike about the Decoy frame. I am 112kg and found the one I rode last weekend to flex so bad I thought I had a flat tire. Did not really like the ergos either.