2019 Turbo levo
- Thread starter alfa7
- Start date
Actually, all Audi/VW is checked for chiptuning when you are at an authirised dealer using their ODIS software- A code is then set in another program that shows evry dealer that the engine has vhanged SW. What is the case by law here, is that you have to proove that it is the tuning that is the reasson for the malfunction of the engine or its components.
If you melt a piston, then you would not have ot covered by warranty. If your timingbelt brakes, because of a failed bearing, then we probebly would cover it. If your head gasket gets a leak no way, but if your gasket for the valvecover leaks, you would get it changed on waranty.
What is the differnece in a 110kg rider using a bike in standard form or a 75kg rider using it derestricted? How would Spec see this through monitoring current/power and capasety of battery used on a ride?
Marcelfacd
Member
Marcelfacd
Member
Big difference between chiptuning and derestriction is that chiptuning is changing the behaviour of the motor, de-restriction is not doing anything to the motor....it’s still putting out the same wattage in the same way as factory set. IMHO it is close to impossible to deliver proof that de restriction hurts the motor (again because same motor etc is used in speed pedelecs)
Sorry, but i do not understand how. The only way the bike messure speed is via the magnet/speedsensor. If you use a mechanical device like the planetary gear, speed-signal is slower than the bike actually moving because the magnet goes slower than before. There is no GPS that messure groundspeed. If you use an electronic device-same thing- as the device sends out a signal that is "slower" than it actually is.
I also agree thet there is a differnece between the chiptuning of a car and the bike. You do not make the motor in a bike perform harder than it was ment to by the factory. 250W is 250W, does not mather at what speed it is delivering max power. Chiptuning a car demands more power from the engine.
if you used the search engine here you would have found that people have been refused warranty as there, according to Specialized, have been a mismatch between charge cycles and covered total distance. If they have other data I'm absolutely sure and especially if you use their new version of Mission Control. If you read all the text with font 2 you will actually see that they collect data from your every ride. The fact that you can't opt out of that I would consider being borderline illegal in EU.
Karsten
Marcelfacd
Member
Can you link? Cant find it.
Sounds weird to me, having multiple batteries and a range extender, swapping batteries with others etc. On what ground is warranty refused (as my power usage de- and restricted are more or less the same averaged over a period) and...are these warranty issues derestriction related?
Furthermore, i never use mission control ( big blevo fan) so how are they logging me?
Marcelfacd
Member
It’s been up a few times here in one of the gazillion threads about specialized.
You are bringing up the same arguments as me and a lot of others but again, warranty has been refused. Specialized have admitted that they are even able to connect to your bike behind your back without you even have the MC open as long as you have it installed on your phone and within reach of the bike. Rumors have even indicated that there indeed is an integrated gps chip in the newest Levo but no proof.
Karsten
Marcelfacd
Member
If all this was true then Specialized would know where all our stolen bikes are.
Furthermore Specialized would have to give me a damn good explanation why they are not liable for guarantee in the case of charging cycles and covered distance and show me the figures on which they base their right to do so.......
Up until know it does not clarify a thing and thus a nonworthy statement...............dont even know what the reason for the guarantee request was !!!
Your call, I’m only referring to what have been said here on this very forum.
Btw do you have an issue with your keyboard?
Karsten
I think spec guys are reading this and eating popcorn. 
In the end this is not tech thing at all. If manufacturer don't allow derestriction and says it affects to warranty, it's end of discussion. Are we permitted to cheat if we know we can't get gaught?
EU limits are stupid. Maybe some day I'm willing to break the law and put my warranty in to risk.
In the end this is not tech thing at all. If manufacturer don't allow derestriction and says it affects to warranty, it's end of discussion. Are we permitted to cheat if we know we can't get gaught?
EU limits are stupid. Maybe some day I'm willing to break the law and put my warranty in to risk.
Marcelfacd
Member
I know....and I'm still trying to find out WHAT has been said
An issue about a battery and covered km's....might just as well have nothing to do with this topic I don't have an issue with my keyboard...do you?
If you read all the letters written with font 2 regarding the personal data from your riding that Specialized are collecting , you might not be that happy. Regarding derestricting I as a matter of fact believe they are entitled to take measures to protect their products.I think spec guys are reading this and eating popcorn.
In the end this is not tech thing at all. If manufacturer don't allow derestriction and says it affects to warranty, it's end of discussion. Are we permitted to cheat if we know we can't get gaught?
EU limits are stupid. Maybe some day I'm willing to break the law and put my warranty in to risk.
Karsten
..............I know....and I'm still trying to find out WHAT has been said
I don't have an issue with my keyboard...do you?
If you mean these letters then I have. And I'm not arguing with you anyway.
We also automatically collect certain other information, including:
- frequency of rides on your bicycle;
- starting location and ending location of your rides;
- power consumption during your rides;
- error occurrences with respect to the battery of the bicycle;
- motor and bicycle serial numbers and the hardware version you are using;
- rider behaviour (using analytics), rider preferences, ride history, rider performance statistics (e.g., length of rides, distance covered;
- elevation gain & loss, rider power, cadence, speed, average speed and elevation gain uphill);
Marcelfacd
Member
Still.......de-restriction and motor tuning are 2 completely different things.
De restriction is not allowed by EU and/or local laws. Motor tuning can harm the motor and understandable that Spec wants to safeguard that. However in a legal way, it is impossible for them to void warranty because of me breaking the law.
It would be the same as voiding warranty on a car if i'am speeding or skip red.
They would have to proof that de-restriction was the cause of failure, which is imho near impossible .
I understand that. And I agree. Still I'm not willing to take the risk because my LBS says that if you manipulate the speed limit in a way or another the warranty is gone.
If my carbon frame cracks I don't think it because manipulated speed limit. If I were the manufacturer I would probably want to maximize the return by denying the warranty in this case. If I want a satisfied customer, I would supply a new frame and maybe sell a new e-bike some day.
It is standard practise on most products that if you modify the product the warranty can be void. The brands seem totally tolerant of changing components but suspension brakes etc are warrantied by the supplier of those parts.
Whether or not a lbs/brand can detect deristriction is debateable but since pedelecs are only permitted to be manufactured and sold in accordance with EU regulations in Europe I presume the brands have to satisfy a condition that they are either able to prevent or at least detect a deristriction.
Good luck if you injure someone and it is found your bike is illegal.
Whether or not a lbs/brand can detect deristriction is debateable but since pedelecs are only permitted to be manufactured and sold in accordance with EU regulations in Europe I presume the brands have to satisfy a condition that they are either able to prevent or at least detect a deristriction.
Good luck if you injure someone and it is found your bike is illegal.
in a car if a motor blows up it can be a bunch of money, that made me think twice but with the bicycle it's not too bad for a new motor. That cutting out a x miles per hour is so annoying to me that it's worth derestricting
Specialised only track that information if you use mission control to record your rides. It's obvious because that amount of data would require a lot of compute and storage on an ebike which it just doesn't have.
The only data they will capture on the bike is battery cycles and km ridden, perhaps a few other values which won't be complex. E.g.max motor temperature or max speed. It won't have any kind of logging of your rides.
Clearly if you have a broken speed sensor your bike will register a ton of cycles yet very few KM ridden.
If your speed sensor was under reading by 30% and you rode normally there won't be enough data for them to know anything.
However as above, we all take a particular view. Some people go "by the letter", some of us don't. It's up to each of us to make that decision.
The only data they will capture on the bike is battery cycles and km ridden, perhaps a few other values which won't be complex. E.g.max motor temperature or max speed. It won't have any kind of logging of your rides.
Clearly if you have a broken speed sensor your bike will register a ton of cycles yet very few KM ridden.
If your speed sensor was under reading by 30% and you rode normally there won't be enough data for them to know anything.
However as above, we all take a particular view. Some people go "by the letter", some of us don't. It's up to each of us to make that decision.
GrandesRoues
Member
Is it possible to put an US levo setting in a euro bike, so to have the increased speed limit ?
...except you put all of us at risk of further regulation on e bikes if it is suspected that the existing regulations are being flouted.
In my opinion the limit is bad for a number of reasons.
1. People with no experience can fly along at 25km and are a danger to themselves and everyone else anyway.
2. I can go significantly faster than the limit with leg power. On the single tracks which lead to the trails 35km/h.
Imo the technology is there to allow the limit to be more nuanced to keep the regulation in line with analog cycles.
E.g. ramp down based upon your input power. Allowing for experienced riders to get assistance into the higher speed ranges which they can already do anyway.
I'm all for sensible regulation but when I can ride as fast as I want with leg power I think the regulation is not nuanced enough.
1. People with no experience can fly along at 25km and are a danger to themselves and everyone else anyway.
2. I can go significantly faster than the limit with leg power. On the single tracks which lead to the trails 35km/h.
Imo the technology is there to allow the limit to be more nuanced to keep the regulation in line with analog cycles.
E.g. ramp down based upon your input power. Allowing for experienced riders to get assistance into the higher speed ranges which they can already do anyway.
I'm all for sensible regulation but when I can ride as fast as I want with leg power I think the regulation is not nuanced enough.
You are completely missing the point. This is not about how fast you ride or whether you are a novice or experienced. It is about the fact that pedelecs were allowed to be manufactured, sold and used on public roads and public access areas PROVIDED they were distinct from forms of transport that need Type Approval, licencing, payment of vehicle tax etc. That distinction was agreed on the basis of a set assisted speed limit and assistance only when pedalling. There are other forms of electric motor propelled vehicles that failed to conform and as a result are either banned (electric scooters and skateboards) or are further regulated (mobility scooters). By deristricting your emtb you risk negating the work and lobbying that was done to give the brands and bike shops the healthy e bike market and us users the joy of owning an emtb we do not have to tax and insure etc. If you are not prepared to accept the assisted speed limit go buy a MX bike......and find out just how hard it is to find anywhere to ride outside of organised events.
I'm not missing the point because I wasn't arguing against regulation. I'm giving my view on why I think the regulation is not nuanced enough and made a suggestion of how technology could be implemented to bring ebikes more in-line with the rules on analog bikes.
The same way I think our fixed speed limit of 70mph is not nuanced enough. On a clear dry day it's too slow, in the torrential rain it's too fast. In France for example, they have two speed limits for the wet/dry. I'm much more in favour of progressive regulation.
The same way I think our fixed speed limit of 70mph is not nuanced enough. On a clear dry day it's too slow, in the torrential rain it's too fast. In France for example, they have two speed limits for the wet/dry. I'm much more in favour of progressive regulation.
miPbiP
E*POWAH Master
Maybe take it to another thread guys? This is the Levo thread.
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