13 years of emtb motors

[Mau]

Happy New Year everyone,

I would like to share my more than ten years of experience on engines tested in this period of time, obviously completely personal.

I am an old emtb user (over 10 years) and have had 6 emtbs. The first, I think 2008 or thereabouts, not really a real emtb, was a Wisper (front) with motor on the rear hub and a very comfortable throttle on the knob (it was not yet prohibited) which was very useful in certain situations.

Then, the glorious Haibike eQ xduro FS Rx 2011 that arrived, incredible but true, in mid-December 2010, sold with 12000 km and nine years without a system failure ( Bosch) !! After that I still had 2 Haibike Yamaha (Px and PWX), a Giant Trance 2019 and finally I have an Orbea Wild FS Team 2021. I essentially do trails hiking that, theoretically, do not exceed S2. I like to hear the engine rasping in tough climbs but the descents, if very battered and technical, get bored after a while, too much concentration ;-). So several engines. My favorite, for fun, Giant's Sincdrive Pro, smooth, powerful, with fantastic software .... but prone to bugs (shutdowns, sensitive to water). The PWX is also excellent, very ready to go (some hated that, not me) but with some gaps in the very technical climbs, less noticeable in Extrapower. I also tried Brose (Fantic), Polini (Fulgur, FM) for a few km and I had a very good impression, very powerful and fluid.

But let's get to the Bosch Gen 4 with which I did 5000 km. Reliable, versatile (you can only use the 500wh extender, remove it, add it at any time, it never crashes) powerful but less fun than the Sincdrive Pro for example. This last one gave you the feeling of being just you the engine, and the gravity sensor did not force you to change assistance often, on Standard you did almost everything and always with great fluidity.

The Bosch is viscous to me, especially in Emtb (which I had removed to put "Sport" back on, yes) if the exit is imperceptible, the entry can be perceived, not in every situation but very often. The slightly delayed exit, once you have learned to manage it, is useful for overcoming certain obstacles but you have to be ready on the brake behind. The walkassist is excellent, almost non-existent on the PWX and rather "nervous" on the SincdrivePro, good on the EP8 ... not tested on the Brose and Polini (any feedback is welcome). Last but not least, computers, displays and handcontrollers must be placed on the scale; a system that is not practical will "spoil" your life. I love the Kiox and its ease of use, its removal, the ability to recharge the phone, its readability and reliability. The handcontroller (not smartsystem for charity) is a bit large, but if you want to find it with gloves, a little substance is needed. To finish, in my opinion, the parameters to be put on the scale to choose a propulsion system, not necessarily in order of importance are:

1) Effective power ( the 85 Nm of Bosch are different on Shimano )

2) Management software and versatility

3) Reliability and service in case of breakdowns

4) Batteries: capacity, manageability (removal, weights, charger), consumption

5) Fluidity and noise

6) Handcontroller computer & display

7) Efficiency of the walkassist !!

Sorry for my English, is a Google translation

 

[Mikerb]

Happy New Year everyone,

I would like to share my more than ten years of experience on engines tested in this period of time, obviously completely personal.

I am an old emtb user (over 10 years) and have had 6 emtbs. The first, I think 2008 or thereabouts, not really a real emtb, was a Wisper (front) with motor on the rear hub and a very comfortable throttle on the knob (it was not yet prohibited) which was very useful in certain situations.

Then, the glorious Haibike eQ xduro FS Rx 2011 that arrived, incredible but true, in mid-December 2010, sold with 12000 km and nine years without a system failure ( Bosch) !! After that I still had 2 Haibike Yamaha (Px and PWX), a Giant Trance 2019 and finally I have an Orbea Wild FS Team 2021. I essentially do trails hiking that, theoretically, do not exceed S2. I like to hear the engine rasping in tough climbs but the descents, if very battered and technical, get bored after a while, too much concentration ;-). So several engines. My favorite, for fun, Giant's Sincdrive Pro, smooth, powerful, with fantastic software .... but prone to bugs (shutdowns, sensitive to water). The PWX is also excellent, very ready to go (some hated that, not me) but with some gaps in the very technical climbs, less noticeable in Extrapower. I also tried Brose (Fantic), Polini (Fulgur, FM) for a few km and I had a very good impression, very powerful and fluid.

But let's get to the Bosch Gen 4 with which I did 5000 km. Reliable, versatile (you can only use the 500wh extender, remove it, add it at any time, it never crashes) powerful but less fun than the Sincdrive Pro for example. This last one gave you the feeling of being just you the engine, and the gravity sensor did not force you to change assistance often, on Standard you did almost everything and always with great fluidity.

The Bosch is viscous to me, especially in Emtb (which I had removed to put "Sport" back on, yes) if the exit is imperceptible, the entry can be perceived, not in every situation but very often. The slightly delayed exit, once you have learned to manage it, is useful for overcoming certain obstacles but you have to be ready on the brake behind. The walkassist is excellent, almost non-existent on the PWX and rather "nervous" on the SincdrivePro, good on the EP8 ... not tested on the Brose and Polini (any feedback is welcome). Last but not least, computers, displays and handcontrollers must be placed on the scale; a system that is not practical will "spoil" your life. I love the Kiox and its ease of use, its removal, the ability to recharge the phone, its readability and reliability. The handcontroller (not smartsystem for charity) is a bit large, but if you want to find it with gloves, a little substance is needed. To finish, in my opinion, the parameters to be put on the scale to choose a propulsion system, not necessarily in order of importance are:

1) Effective power ( the 85 Nm of Bosch are different on Shimano )

2) Management software and versatility

3) Reliability and service in case of breakdowns

4) Batteries: capacity, manageability (removal, weights, charger), consumption

5) Fluidity and noise

6) Handcontroller computer & display

7) Efficiency of the walkassist !!

Sorry for my English, is a Google translation

The translation was pretty good ( well good for Google !)
I guess we all have different wants and needs.
For me, EMTBs are going in the wrong direction in the brands belief that a "Playstation" on wheels is what grabs people's attention. Meanwhile the software and electrical components on most EMTBs are their achilles heal given that none of the brands have any expertise in software development or electronics. To concieve that an MTB becomes unuseable because of it will not switch on is just dumb!! So it should never happen.
For me a well protected and secure battery plus a simple 3 button mode controller is all that is required. Less to break, less to go wrong. The controlling software and processor should all be within the motor not in a separate vulnerable piece of plastic on the bars or top tube! No brand has yet achieved that. Virtually everything else can be done with non bike connected and replaceable tracking and monitoring devices if you are that interested in distance speed power heart rate joules etc. If they go wrong the bike is not affected! Personally I am only interested in the ride.
I want the motor to be reliable, reasonably quiet and powerful. I only have experience of Brose and Bosch and both are fine with me albeit they need a slightly different approach from the rider to get the most from them. In essence the Brose delivers more power lower in the cadence range than Bosch.......not much difference once you take that into account.
Motor comparisons are also less than fully accurate since of course they will be fitted to different bikes which may be different weights, different % pedal efficiency, different tyres and different suspension travel............all of which impact on how the motor "appears" to perform.