eMountain Biking with an Internal Geared Hub (the Rohloff)

[paulmoir]

This is Rohloff focused. But for those interested... this is quite a detailed video I have put together explaining about the advantages and disadvantages of the internal geared hubs on eMtbs. The purpose of the video is to try and explain how the Rohloff works, how you change gears and what a Rohloff is really like in a mountain biking (and eMtb'ing) application. Along with some iconic Aussie trails and scenery and feedback from a couple of eMtb'ers who have recently converted over to the geared hub.

 

[CjP]

Well explained Paul. I loved my Rohloff on my old FF Kenevo! Once installed and set up, I never had one single drivetrain issue. I took that bike through all sorts of terrain from green trails to double black DH runs and it never skipped a beat.
As you said there was an initial adjustment period but once that happened it was awesome. I especially loved the ability to change gears at anytime I felt like it. Sooo bloody handy.
The only reason I haven’t got it on my current SL is I’ve gone with an XO system for lower weight given my mods.
Great video Paul, hopefully it can help people better understand the product!

 

[Pdoz]

How come nikko gets an mx plug and stephen gall doesn't !!!!!

Hey, christian, did you ever try the rohloff in the sl?

 

[CjP]

I fitted the rear wheel up to make sure it fit which it did but decided not to run it as I wanted lightest possible weight.
Really wanted to try it though, I may throw it on the Kenevo soon.

 

[Gary]

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

Rohloff has been around a long while now and IMO it'd be really nice if they were to develop a revised system specifically for Emtb with less range and less gears (400% with 10 gears would be ideal). A decent trigger style shifter option and neater cable management would make it even better for riding mtb. Obviously I get why the gripshift style shifter is used both due to the operation of the hub internals as well as for ease of multiple shifting through the entire gear range but few of us actually need to dump though any more than 3 gears in a oner and a twist shifter just isn't always ideal in certain situations so an option of a trigger/paddle style shifter (or even electric shifting) would be great..

 

[Pdoz]

I fitted the rear wheel up to make sure it fit which it did but decided not to run it as I wanted lightest possible weight.
Really wanted to try it though, I may throw it on the Kenevo soon.

Looking at the numbers in his video, it'd come in at a very similar weight to the stock nx cassette etc. Food for thought when I wear it out.

 

[Gary]

I should probably have had a proper look before being so quick to type my thoughts above. Seems Rohloff already do an intelligent Emtb friendly electric shifter and gear selector

E-14 - Rohloff AG

www.rohloff.de

integration with Ebikes and the ability to reduce motor assistance torque allowing smooth shifts as you use the shifter sounds pretty cool.
automatically shifting to a pre-programmed gear every time the bike is stationary not so much.
But surely both of these features are optional?

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

I should probably have had a proper look before being so quick to type my thoughts above. Seems Rohloff already do an intelligent Emtb friendly electric shifter and gear selector

E-14 - Rohloff AG

www.rohloff.de

integration with Ebikes and the ability to reduce motor assistance torque allowing smooth shifts as you use the shifter sounds pretty cool.
automatically shifting to a pre-programmed gear every time the bike is stationary not so much.
But surely both of these features are optional?

Can the Rohloff E-14 electronic shifting system be used on a bicycle without electric mid-motor support?
No, the Rohloff E-14 shifting system is currently only compatible with bicycles using the Bosch & Panasonic FIT eBike system. At this point in time, unfortunately not feasible as the current E-14 units require the power source and cock-pit of a Bosch or Panasonic FIT eBike system running the compatible software.
We are aware oft he demand for a non-Ebike dependent Rohloff E-14 version however the implementation of this will require further development and thus time.

 

[Gary]

What?

 

[j_s]

Maybe one for Rob to look into testing on his Rail?
I'd be tempted to give it a go on mine although not sure if I can use the E14 with my Bosch purion controller, unless it just means I lose the gear display feature, it's not clear on Rohloff's site though.

Edit: As of 4 years ago you can't get an E14 retrofit setup, I'd like to hope in the rapid increase in ebikes worldwide this will change.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

What?

straight off the Q&A on that page you posted.

 

[Sapientiea]

Hmm interesting as I have to old travel bikes with rohloff hub I have had a moutainbike (hardtail) with a rohloff hub + belt. I found it made the rear really heavy....might be different feel for e-bike......but i am not sure

 

[Gary]

straight off the Q&A on that page you posted.

I know where it's from Dobs. It was me who posted the link.
But what exactly is your point?

 

[Sidepod]

As well as just shifting cogs, the integration cuts motor power momentarily during shift.

 

[thebarber]

So what's the shopping list for one of these on a 148 boost bike?
I've wanted one for 15+ years but confused to what's required, there's so many different models and accessories.

 

[Sidepod]

Good luck with that. I’ve tried. They won’t sell you one unless it’s through a bike shop who will assess your bike, carry out various measurements with their test kit and then take responsibility for it.

In addition it’s tricky to find a chainring for the belt drive unless you have Bosch.
(I see little point in converting unless I can go the whole way and include belt drive)

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

I know where it's from Dobs. It was me who posted the link.
But what exactly is your point?

pretty obvious I would have thought.
for someone like me who wouldnt mind fitting to a Levo or anything other than bosch or panasonic, its seems like thats not possible yet.

Is the Rohloff E-14 also available for alternative E-motors?
The E-14 gear mech is currently, at the time of press (March 2020), only available for new bicycles using the Bosch or Panasonic FIT eBike-System. The Active Line, Active Line Plus, Performance Line, Performance Line CX and Bosch Gen 4 are all compatible. Both the Intuvia, Nyon and Kiox displays will be supported.

 

[Gary]

No. Not really obvious at all. I still have no idea why you quoted me. I read the whole thing before posting the link (including the Q&A you've quoted) and was well aware which motors it's currently compatible with.
It's not a drivetrain solution I'd want (yet)... My point was, with refinement it could eventually become a decent option.
But Rohloff don't exactly innovate quickly ?

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

I still have no idea why you quoted me

aha, I see!
because after you posted the link you said this:

integration with Ebikes and the ability to reduce motor assistance torque allowing smooth shifts as you use the shifter sounds pretty cool.
automatically shifting to a pre-programmed gear every time the bike is stationary not so much.
But surely both of these features are optional?

and I thought you were referencing the tech in the link so I got all excited and looked at it to find that it was only for the systems weve mentioned.. so, I posted the Q&A afterwards just so people know that its not available for all systems, thats it.

 

[Gary]

Ah.. A simple misunderstanding from reading one thing and assuming a whole load of things that weren't even implied nevermind said? ?

I thought it was plain to see which systems the rohloff electrics are compatible with from the link and fairly obvious I was simply typing my thoughts on what could make a rohloff internal hub a better system for mtb/Emtb in the future.

I'd also want the hub to be lighter. Which would be feasible with a redesign housing less gears and less range.

 

[paulmoir]

Good luck with that. I’ve tried. They won’t sell you one unless it’s through a bike shop who will assess your bike, carry out various measurements with their test kit and then take responsibility for it.

In addition it’s tricky to find a chainring for the belt drive unless you have Bosch.
(I see little point in converting unless I can go the whole way and include belt drive)

You cannot use a Gates belt with a full suspension bike, unless it is a specially designed tensioner (not anything off the shelf, you can buy). Belt tension is critical and todate only a couple of brands have made a Rohloff Gates belt drive full suspension mtb (eg. Nicolai EBOXX E14).

 

[paulmoir]

pretty obvious I would have thought.
for someone like me who wouldnt mind fitting to a Levo or anything other than bosch or panasonic, its seems like thats not possible yet.

Is the Rohloff E-14 also available for alternative E-motors?
The E-14 gear mech is currently, at the time of press (March 2020), only available for new bicycles using the Bosch or Panasonic FIT eBike-System. The Active Line, Active Line Plus, Performance Line, Performance Line CX and Bosch Gen 4 are all compatible. Both the Intuvia, Nyon and Kiox displays will be supported.

Personally I don’t believe the Rohloff E14 electronic shifting is the better option for mountain biking. I’ve tried both, the manual shifter is definitely quicker and better suited for mountain biking. Although the software works well for decreasing motor power whilst the shift takes place, you still cannot shift under power (pedalling). The shifter is still looking for a moment without load to complete the shift. You can do it, the E14 is a very nice shifting system, but for mtb’ing the Rohloff manual shifter is faster and the best option.

 

[paulmoir]

Ah.. A simple misunderstanding from reading one thing and assuming a whole load of things that weren't even implied nevermind said? ?

I thought it was plain to see which systems the rohloff electrics are compatible with from the link and fairly obvious I was simply typing my thoughts on what could make a rohloff internal hub a better system for mtb/Emtb in the future.

I'd also want the hub to be lighter. Which would be feasible with a redesign housing less gears and less range.

Unlikely anytime soon that the Rohloff will be redesigned to reduce weight. My prediction would be we will be riding integrated motor/gearboxes as the next big development - there are some manufacturers already working on this with prototype designs. Makes more sense.

 

[paulmoir]

Well explained Paul. I loved my Rohloff on my old FF Kenevo! Once installed and set up, I never had one single drivetrain issue. I took that bike through all sorts of terrain from green trails to double black DH runs and it never skipped a beat.
As you said there was an initial adjustment period but once that happened it was awesome. I especially loved the ability to change gears at anytime I felt like it. Sooo bloody handy.
The only reason I haven’t got it on my current SL is I’ve gone with an XO system for lower weight given my mods.
Great video Paul, hopefully it can help people better understand the product!

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Thanks Christian, have 2 new 2022 SL Levos being converted over to Rohloffs next few weeks (waiting in the bikes). Be interesting the difference in the overall weight.

 

[paulmoir]

How come nikko gets an mx plug and stephen gall doesn't !!!!!

Hey, christian, did you ever try the rohloff in the sl?

Nikko was one of the two riders/owners who converted over to the Rohloff, so I wanted to provide some credibility on who each person was - and one who was a recreational mtber and another (Nikko) who is a very skilled and accomplished rider. Probably didn’t have another time on the video to say who Stephen Gall is/was and what he had accomplished ?. A super legend in Australian motox.

 

[paulmoir]

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

Rohloff has been around a long while now and IMO it'd be really nice if they were to develop a revised system specifically for Emtb with less range and less gears (400% with 10 gears would be ideal). A decent trigger style shifter option and neater cable management would make it even better for riding mtb. Obviously I get why the gripshift style shifter is used both due to the operation of the hub internals as well as for ease of multiple shifting through the entire gear range but few of us actually need to dump though any more than 3 gears in a oner and a twist shifter just isn't always ideal in certain situations so an option of a trigger/paddle style shifter (or even electric shifting) would be great..

Good points Gary. I recently converted a commuter eBike over to the Rohloff and the owner was very happy, but said he only needed the top 6-7 gears. I mainly used 5-6 thru to 14, some rides maybe only 7-8 thru to 14, but we went on an explorer ride the other day and I used gears 1 thru 4 a number of times… so for me, it’s good having the whole range but it depends on what type of mtb’ing you do.

 

[paulmoir]

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

Rohloff has been around a long while now and IMO it'd be really nice if they were to develop a revised system specifically for Emtb with less range and less gears (400% with 10 gears would be ideal). A decent trigger style shifter option and neater cable management would make it even better for riding mtb. Obviously I get why the gripshift style shifter is used both due to the operation of the hub internals as well as for ease of multiple shifting through the entire gear range but few of us actually need to dump though any more than 3 gears in a oner and a twist shifter just isn't always ideal in certain situations so an option of a trigger/paddle style shifter (or even electric shifting) would be great..

Trigger shifters are available for the Rohloff from third-party suppliers… some prefer them.

 

[paulmoir]

So what's the shopping list for one of these on a 148 boost bike?
I've wanted one for 15+ years but confused to what's required, there's so many different models and accessories.

Order a 148mm boost Speedhub and rotor and tensioner if they are needed. Plus determine which axle plate suits best for torque restraint (to stop the hub turning).

 

[paulmoir]

Good luck with that. I’ve tried. They won’t sell you one unless it’s through a bike shop who will assess your bike, carry out various measurements with their test kit and then take responsibility for it.

In addition it’s tricky to find a chainring for the belt drive unless you have Bosch.
(I see little point in converting unless I can go the whole way and include belt drive)

That is only for the A12 (12mm thru-axle) Speedhub version. There’s a special dropout assessment kit with a 44-page manual to determine and then have Rohloff Germany approve the data for that frame (it is not a true thru-axle, therefore custom adaptors are supplied with each frame). You cannot use a belt-drive on the full suspension mtb unless it is a custom, specially designed tensioner system as belt tension is a critical aspect of the Gates belt drive.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. optimum gearing range and spread is always going to be a hugely personal thing.

Is that a DIY fabricated trigger shifter Paul? If so it's very very impressive work.
I'd love to see the manufacture/design process. Especially the indexing mechanism. How many gears does it allow you to change per full lever push? and how does the lever throw compare to the likes of a shimano or sram shifter?