Brakes problem.. (Code R, RSC and lever throw)

[filotnie]

I am short.. my fingers are short (The other measurments are impressive - that's what she said ;-) ). I ride M bike with SRAM Code brakes. You see my point?
So I hate that my brake lever goes 1/2 into its travel before the pad gently touches the disk. Some more and it finally brakes but lever continues until almost hitting the bar.. almost.. I can still put my small finger (from another hand) under at max squeeze but this initial empty stroke makes me really angry! I understand 10% or maybe 15%.. ok I have a good day today let it be 20% but not fucking 50% of dead travel!
I just want to say that it is exactly the same before and after the bleeding and on Code R and Code RSC.
Code RSC are nicer of course! feels more precise.. and all the way in is like that.. all the way out on contact the lever travels to the bar.. like couple mm off. Seriously this is counter-intuitive or plain wrong! When I move my lever distance all the way out situations is a bit better when it comes to closing lever to the bar.. but still 50% of nothing then modulation and then bar! C'mon!
I've heard that my problem solving is Shimano XT but there I've heard I won't have modulation. I like modulation.. that allows me to brake downhill without the locking the back wheel so I kind of need that.. but I honestly I hate this empty throw. I've also read that Shimano new XT has great everything, you can easily feel contact point (that's what I want and not after half of the lever travel) but as the brakes get hot it drifts away and you end up down with the lever to the bar.. or like in Sram brakes..
Over-bleeding helps but then starts rubbing, squeaking and actually it may end up with leak or some kind of blockage (when it gets hot?).

Help, ideas, your experience? How do you deal with your finger oversqueeze on the descents?
Thanks,
fil..

 

[Kentish]

Give this a go....


I was about the throw in the towel with my Code Rs. I brake one fingered and kept trapping my fingers against the bar before the things worked. I done this and they’ve been fine for months.

Found I had a bit too much lever this week so done the ‘balancing the system ’ part only and all good again.

 

[Funkeydunk]

Take off and nuke the brakes from orbit...it’s the only way to be sure. Then buy some sexy magura, Shimano, hope, or any brand they you fancy. Sounds like you’ve already made your mind up that this need to happen, you just need to get used to the fact it’s happening...good luck.

 

[iXi]

SRAM bleeding guide seems odd. They say moved the contact adjust dial all the way out before bleeding. Problem is as the brakes wear and the lever comes closer to the bar the contact adjustment only allows one way and that is to bring the lever even closer to the bar? Wtf?

I saw another video on YouTube that said screw that idea, dial the contact point adjustment into halfway then bleed the brakes. This way you have the option to dial the lever out as the pads wear giving you that instant bite feel. You still will get a little dead throw but it's not much, maybe 5-10mm depending how you like it

Here is the video
He explains it at 7:16 into the video

 

[paquo]

with fresh pads and following sram bleed directions mine (rsc) work well. I try to get every hint of air out. Once the pads wear down a bit not as good but still nowhere near the bar

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I find SRAM Code brakes perfectly good BUT have found that I have to keep bleeding them every 3-4 months and push the pistons back into the calliper (no biggie, very easy to do, bleeding super simple and quick) and keep fresh pads / discs in good clean condition.

Well setup codes are very good brakes.

I think that lever throw is always going to be greater on the SRAM brakes compared to other brands. Possibly something to do with the calliper / lever DOT 5.1 oil flow design. On big long big descents they can heat up and lever throw is considerably reduced. Im no engineer, but I suspect that this is a safety aspect, it needs that margin to stop brakes overheating and locking.....

Again, just my experience. That modulation feel comes with some trade offs...

 

[R120]

Definitely bleed, clean pistons, and push them back in - pn my bike I have gone to 223mm rotors, which are also thicker at 2mm than the 1.8mm of the smaller rotors, this has had the side effect of improving the modulation, but also reducing the through of the lever - however the bigger rotors still need keeping car of as the tolerance between the pads is reduced and they can rub.

 

[Gary]

Remove the wheel (or caliper) and "carefully" advance the pistons so the pads sit closer to the disc and you can reduce the lever throw to almost none.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Remove the wheel (or caliper) and "carefully" advance the pistons so the pads sit closer to the disc and you can reduce the lever throw to almost none.

Nice tip - any need to add fluid when doing this?

 

[Gary]

nope

 

[filotnie]

Thank you all for your help and tips! Actually rebleeded (reeled?) them yesterday, cleaned made almost complete service except disassembling calliper or levers.. after cleaning pistons and around.. Henry’s tips, bleeding with half way contact point adjuster the trow is much much better.. so I decided that I will keep them for a while.. I still prefer stock Shimano feel but those code rsc brakes are darn good at stopping me where I want!

 

[filotnie]

BTW.. when I dig into the topic.. complete calliper service doesn’t look so bad and could give good results to clean everything up and give the pistons new equal slide..

 

[salko]

If I may use this thread for my issue with Code RSC brakes: about a week ago I started to feel that rear brake lever goes too close to the bar, today I decided to rebleed it (I did it according to SRAM guide on YT), but did not solve the issue. As you can see on the video below (this was recorded after rebleed) if I pull the lever for some time it goes right to the bar. I looks to me like the seals on the piston inside the lever is not holding the pressure anymore. Brakes are less than 5 months old and have less than 2kkm. Anyone had similar issues and how did it fix? Is this a warranty issue?

 

[Dpickin1]

I am short.. my fingers are short (The other measurments are impressive - that's what she said ;-) ). I ride M bike with SRAM Code brakes. You see my point?
So I hate that my brake lever goes 1/2 into its travel before the pad gently touches the disk. Some more and it finally brakes but lever continues until almost hitting the bar.. almost.. I can still put my small finger (from another hand) under at max squeeze but this initial empty stroke makes me really angry! I understand 10% or maybe 15%.. ok I have a good day today let it be 20% but not fucking 50% of dead travel!
I just want to say that it is exactly the same before and after the bleeding and on Code R and Code RSC.
Code RSC are nicer of course! feels more precise.. and all the way in is like that.. all the way out on contact the lever travels to the bar.. like couple mm off. Seriously this is counter-intuitive or plain wrong! When I move my lever distance all the way out situations is a bit better when it comes to closing lever to the bar.. but still 50% of nothing then modulation and then bar! C'mon!
I've heard that my problem solving is Shimano XT but there I've heard I won't have modulation. I like modulation.. that allows me to brake downhill without the locking the back wheel so I kind of need that.. but I honestly I hate this empty throw. I've also read that Shimano new XT has great everything, you can easily feel contact point (that's what I want and not after half of the lever travel) but as the brakes get hot it drifts away and you end up down with the lever to the bar.. or like in Sram brakes..
Over-bleeding helps but then starts rubbing, squeaking and actually it may end up with leak or some kind of blockage (when it gets hot?).

Help, ideas, your experience? How do you deal with your finger oversqueeze on the descents?
Thanks,
fil..

I had the same issue when I was running code r brakes and found a solution from a member of this forum. Matter-Replicator – Custom Products by Robert Silvers, made from matter.
The owner was responsive and the product worth every cent. I still have these on a yt Capra and the brakes hit almost instantly. As pads wear, there are different sizes of these parts that you can adjust with. Check it out., I was surely not disappointed.

 

[salko]

If I may use this thread for my issue with Code RSC brakes: about a week ago I started to feel that rear brake lever goes too close to the bar, today I decided to rebleed it (I did it according to SRAM guide on YT), but did not solve the issue. As you can see on the video below (this was recorded after rebleed) if I pull the lever for some time it goes right to the bar. I looks to me like the seals on the piston inside the lever is not holding the pressure anymore. Brakes are less than 5 months old and have less than 2kkm. Anyone had similar issues and how did it fix? Is this a warranty issue?

Well I received new lever assembly today, installed it, rebleeded and shock! Same issue! ?
Now next possible reason is that I have faulty brake hose. Maybe the inner pressure (white) layer of the brake hose is somewhere damaged and leaks into outer (black) protective layer, and because fittings on both end make a strong seal together with protective layer and rear hose itself is pretty long there is no leak of oil and no visible bubbles or deformation of the hose (maybe they are on the part of the hose which is hidden inside the frame). Will try to get new rear hose and replace the damn thing. Already a week without a ride, so frustrating.

 

[Mattwilko92]

In my opinion, they are just rubbish. Chris at Berkshire has just fitted Magura MT7’s to my levo and i wish i had done it 12 months ago. Best upgrade i’ve done. I’ve got full confidence in them and the bike.

 

[55plusmxinsanity]

Plunger adjust? No one mentioned it. My Code rsc’s have it. The caliper trick works great with Guides too.

 

[salko]

Plunger adjust? No one mentioned it. My Code rsc’s have it. The caliper trick works great with Guides too.

Do tell more.

 

[nosuchuser]

I've had plenty of woes with the Code R's fitted to my Whyte. I've come from 15 year old Hope 4 pots and the Code R brakes left much to be desired; spongy, lack of braking force and horrendous lever travel. Bled the rear, lots of air in it, a little better but still lacking force and too much travel.

Much googling ensued, one post stood out, something like:

I've fixed my SRAM brake issues - I had the LBS install Hope brakes

Don't really want to chuck 400 odd at new Hopes but I've now got to point where I'm reasonably happy with the performance due to a better bleed procedure and some Trickstuff 840 power brakepads:


I've also got some deslackinators on order but god know how long they'll take to arrive.

I followed the GMBN videos How To Bleed New Sram MTB Brakes and Henry's Disc Brake Hacks, both of these helped especially the balancing of the low and high pressure systems but the key factor in improving the overall performance came from a post on PinkBike by a guy called slabshaft: Sram guide ultimate rear brake spongy

The key is at the end of the bleed, once you've pressurised the lever end and removed the syringe (thereby losing all pressure and spilling loads of fluid...) is to slightly undo the bleeding edge port and apply quite a bit of pressure on the syringe to force more fluid into the caliper, pre-loading them, then with the pressure still applied, close the bleeding edge port.

Getting the amount of pressure/fluid in the caliper correct took a few goes to get right, too much and you can't get the block out, too little and it's spongy.

Could do this with wheel and pads in, lever depressed a little and very, very carefully opening the bleeding edge port. Warning - If you do this with the wheel in, be really careful not to spill any fluid on your nice clean, uncontaminated pads and disk - it'll end in tears.

I got to the right pressure by doing this with the pads in and the wheel out and used a spreader like this (super handy tool) between the pads for them to squeeze on - you can then massage the pads and pistons back in if required.

I've now got my levers screwed all the way out, the bit of slack allows me to hook my finger over the lever and hold it in a bit before they bite - the deslackinators should help there - but the braking performance is much, much better, lever no longer goes to the bars and confidence much improved.

Is it the pads? Is it the bleed? A combination of both? Not sure but I've not crashed due to inability to slow down and I've not had cause to bitch about them at all since

 

[55plusmxinsanity]

Do tell more.

The adjuster wheel.

 

[ScottWest]

I would not pressurize your codes, the reservoir bladders are quite fragile

 

[nosuchuser]

I would not pressurize your codes, the reservoir bladders are quite fragile

This is true but I'm talking about pressurising the low pressure part of the system at the caliper, not the high pressure side at the lever. That final push on the syringe at the lever is to ensure the lever is full of fluid and any compression is lost when the syringe is removed.

 

[RichardGB]

Remove the wheel (or caliper) and "carefully" advance the pistons so the pads sit closer to the disc and you can reduce the lever throw to almost none.

It's worth adding a little fluid after this. Just remember when it's new pad times that you'll have excess fluid in the system so don't push the pads back in straight away.

 

[ScottWest]

This is true but I'm talking about pressurising the low pressure part of the system at the caliper, not the high pressure side at the lever. That final push on the syringe at the lever is to ensure the lever is full of fluid and any compression is lost when the syringe is removed.

Understood. In my opinion, and I've been wrong before, excessive pressure on the low pressure side (caliper) will force fluid into the high pressure side (lever). This will bottom out the reservoir bladder, which is designed to create some free space for fluid expansion due to heat. It will give you a solid lever feel though. Just my .02

 

[nosuchuser]

Understood. In my opinion, and I've been wrong before, excessive pressure on the low pressure side (caliper) will force fluid into the high pressure side (lever). This will bottom out the reservoir bladder, which is designed to create some free space for fluid expansion due to heat. It will give you a solid lever feel though. Just my .02

Yeah think you are right and I agree, that could happen but I'm balancing (or at least trying to) low and high after I've added that slug of fluid at the caliper end with some flexing of the pad spreader and squeezing of the lever. I thought with this design of lever, the expansion was into an air chamber so with over filling/pressurising, you could potentially force that diaphragm all the way into the expansion space and then as you say, when it gets hot, no space to expand and you could end up with reduced travel - worst case, could end up rupturing the diaphragm... hmmm.

I think the push at the caliper end replaces some of the fluid lost when the lever syringe is removed and if there's too much pressure in the system and the brakes are rubbing, can always (carefully) use the bleeding edge port syringe to remove a little bit of fluid.

But, bottom line, following SRAM's procedure for bleeding their brakes has left me deeply unsatisfied with the performance, I'll live with potentially reduced travel when things get really hot and if I do rupture the diaphragm... I'll buy some Magura MT7 or Hope V4

 

[Gary]

It's worth adding a little fluid after this. Just remember when it's new pad times that you'll have excess fluid in the system so don't push the pads back in straight away.

You maybe want to think about that ?

 

[salko]

View attachment 36427 The adjuster wheel.

I know it has a wheel for contact point adjustment. Was refering to the "The caliper trick", I guess you talked about this final push of syringe on caliper end ...

Well I received new lever assembly today, installed it, rebleeded and shock! Same issue! ?
Now next possible reason is that I have faulty brake hose. Maybe the inner pressure (white) layer of the brake hose is somewhere damaged and leaks into outer (black) protective layer, and because fittings on both end make a strong seal together with protective layer and rear hose itself is pretty long there is no leak of oil and no visible bubbles or deformation of the hose (maybe they are on the part of the hose which is hidden inside the frame). Will try to get new rear hose and replace the damn thing. Already a week without a ride, so frustrating.

I finally resolved this issue out, it was indeed bad brake hose. However when I removed this bad hose I could not see and damages or deformation on it.

 

[Fingerpuk]

I am buying Magura. The Guide T that cane with mine are ok but not great and the lack of adjustment is really annoying.

 

[filotnie]

with a combination of all of those tips and tricks (except hose swapping), I finally have my levers throw more to my liking. Front better than the back but I was able to adjust it with contact adjustment wheel - hurray!
They are not perfect though. going down and braking still feels a bit nervous and requires too much finger effort (and some other delicate applications of those brought me many compliments over the last 2 decades). I long haven't ridden on Shimano or other brands to compare but in overall I am very very disappointed with SRAM brakes. Either I have to grow up to this unicorn legendary "modulation" or da fack those are bad bad brakes by design and other riders learning to adapt.
I am getting half of the leaderboard results on my trails now (according to Strava - Garmin seems to be dead ?) and I will yet give it a try.. I am certainly missing other skills then only braking so.. will see.. if you want me to report my progress in adopting "modulation" braking.. let me know (fuck sake - in the comments below - too much youtube time to ride! Weekend!).. .

If not Code RSC then I will look for your advice for other brake set with a normal level of modulation but also proper lever action that result in happy braking.
Does anyone want to buy set of Code R? This experiments already cost me too much already.... although Can I sell stock brakes from my Decoy and what happens when I sent them to bike on guarantee with different brakes?

Cheers,
fil..

 

[ScottWest]

Yeah think you are right and I agree, that could happen but I'm balancing (or at least trying to) low and high after I've added that slug of fluid at the caliper end with some flexing of the pad spreader and squeezing of the lever. I thought with this design of lever, the expansion was into an air chamber so with over filling/pressurising, you could potentially force that diaphragm all the way into the expansion space and then as you say, when it gets hot, no space to expand and you could end up with reduced travel - worst case, could end up rupturing the diaphragm... hmmm.

I think the push at the caliper end replaces some of the fluid lost when the lever syringe is removed and if there's too much pressure in the system and the brakes are rubbing, can always (carefully) use the bleeding edge port syringe to remove a little bit of fluid.

But, bottom line, following SRAM's procedure for bleeding their brakes has left me deeply unsatisfied with the performance, I'll live with potentially reduced travel when things get really hot and if I do rupture the diaphragm... I'll buy some Magura MT7 or Hope V4

I hear you in regards to being unsatisfied with lever feel. Balancing does work great!!! My problem has been that they don't stay balanced forever, the high and low systems seem to eventually equalize. This results in inconsistent/soft lever feel. The fluid that squirts out the lever port when you remove the bleed syringe is caused by the bladder relaxing when pressure is removed. Maybe balancing the system after a slight overfill might provide a little expansion room in the reservoir? Unsure. Just a thought.. Your experience may vary.