his is the Haibike Lyke – a 18KG SuperLight Electric Mountain bike, featuring the new 2023 Fazua Ride 60 Motor, a 430Wh internal battery and a trail build for ripping around your local favourites, and beyond!
Fazua Ride 60 has 60Nm of Torque and 450 Watts of peak power. This first look shows the carbon frame, Fazua electrical motor system and a little peak into the bike.
[QUOTE=”Doomanic, post: 419834, member: 52″]
Whereas I want and like light(ish) bike, not a tank. You pays your[I] wifes new bathroom[/I] money and makes your choice.
[/QUOTE]
FIFY
[QUOTE=”MOTO13, post: 419829, member: 12270″]
I want and like an 85 motor, not 60.
[/QUOTE]
Light or powerful because at the moment you cant have both .
And without being funny a pretty pointless post in a thread about a new lighter bike.
I like an 85 motor. I have ridden 60’s and don’t like the way the feel. They need to find a way to get the battery lighter and still have an 85 motor. Lightening a bike and putting in a smaller motor is fine I guess. I’d like to see a light bike with full power. Not lightening a bike with a 400 battery and low power motor.
[QUOTE=”MOTO13, post: 419843, member: 12270″]
I like an 85 motor. I have ridden 60’s and don’t like the way the feel. They need to find a way to get the battery lighter and still have an 85 motor. Lightening a bike and putting in a smaller motor is fine I guess. I’d like to see a light bike with full power. Not lightening a bike with a 400 battery and low power motor.
[/QUOTE]
Thats as maybe,
A lot of people would like full power bikes that weigh 18kg and possibly less but as things stand you have to have lower power and smaller batteries theres no other way to do it at present .
[QUOTE=”Zimmerframe, post: 419836, member: 4350″]FIFY[/QUOTE]
The current master bathroom status……I went riding instead.
This is standing in the bathroom looking out.
[ATTACH=full]96226[/ATTACH]
In my opinion the actual limit of this very interesting category of bike, is the destination of use. If the rider is searching for a trail bike they are wonderfull! The light weight and the agile geometries give to the rider a very dynimc and engaging ride expereince… until the trail become gnarly and very steep.. then they are out of their “comfort zone” and not so fun…
Keeping the travel and components selection in the trail category, permits to the product managers to keep the weight of ebikes under the 18kg mark and to tune the frame geometry torward the agile/snappy territory…
This is the reason why until now the only lightweight real Enduro bike is the Kenevo SL. The rest ( Orbea Rise, Pivot Shulltle SL, Levo SL, Trek Fuel EXe…) are all Trail orineted choices.
My question to [B][USER=1]@Rob Rides EMTB[/USER] [/B] is: is there space in the market for the lightweight “real Enduro” ebike or does it make more sense to reduce the weight of a full power Enduro machine?
In the end the differece betewen a Full power motor/battery system and a Lightweight one, is just 1,5 kg….
What do you think?
[QUOTE=”oettam20, post: 419855, member: 16108″]
In my opinion the actual limit of this very interesting category of bike, is the destination of use. If the rider is searching for a trail bike they are wonderfull! The light weight and the agile geometries give to the rider a very dynimc and engaging ride expereince… until the trail become gnarly and very steep.. then they are out of their “comfort zone” and not so fun…
Keeping the travel and components selection in the trail category, permits to the product managers to keep the weight of ebikes under the 18kg mark and to tune the frame geometry torward the agile/snappy territory…
This is the reason why until now the only lightweight real Enduro bike is the Kenevo SL. The rest ( Orbea Rise, Pivot Shulltle SL, Levo SL, Trek Fuel EXe…) are all Trail orineted choices.
My question to [B][USER=1]@Rob Rides EMTB[/USER] [/B] is: is there space in the market for the lightweight “real Enduro” ebike or does it make more sense to reduce the weight of a full power Enduro machine?
In the end the differece betewen a Full power motor/battery system and a Lightweight one, is just 1,5 kg….
What do you think?
[/QUOTE]
Regarding the trail ebike category, its more likely a commercial decision. Trail category is king, more neutral to sell and can be marketed via stats (like weight – right or wrong – , it is a big driver, its easy for consumers to digest and understand, compared to, say, geometry numbers).
Trail bike = highest amount of sales. Suits broad range of riders, not ‘too gnarly’. Look at the success of Levo (vs Kenevo) / Trek Rail etc.
Enduro = slightly more niche market
A bike brand releasing their first bike in a segment will want minimum risk and maximum sales. A 140 29er trail bike is a safe bet.
All bike companies will have enduro super lights, it will just take time.
[QUOTE=”oettam20, post: 419855, member: 16108″]
My question to [B]@Rob Rides EMTB [/B] is: is there space in the market for the lightweight “real Enduro” ebike or does it make more sense to reduce the weight of a full power Enduro machine?
In the end the differece betewen a Full power motor/battery system and a Lightweight one, is just 1,5 kg….
[/QUOTE]
Right now, the most interesting SL enduro ebike is the Transition Relay. I’d love to try that.
[QUOTE=”Zimmerframe, post: 419836, member: 4350″]
FIFY
[/QUOTE]
Technically, as I’d already bought the KSL, I spent the bathroom money on the TurboHearse. At least that’s what I told her. 😀
Hi Rob, one important question. This LED unit in the top tube, it can be pulled up and reveals USB port. What will happen during the rain, there is pretty deep down cavity to accomodate it. Will be there after some time an aquarium, or all water goes into the frame?
[QUOTE=”Janisj, post: 419891, member: 26092″]
Hi Rob, one important question. This LED unit in the top tube, it can be pulled up and reveals USB port. What will happen during the rain, there is pretty deep down cavity to accomodate it. Will be there after some time an aquarium, or all water goes into the frame?
[/QUOTE]
If water gets in here it’ll go into the frame. There is a cradle that the unit slots into but it’s hollow inside.
[QUOTE=”MOTO13, post: 419829, member: 12270″]
I want and like an 85 motor, not 60.
[/QUOTE]
I have both, 85Nm & 60Nm. My cheap analogy is this:
The full fat is like being behind the wheel of a 5.0 ltr Range Rover Vogue, comfortable, powerful, but heavy & a bit crap at corners
The lightweight is like being behind a wheel of a 1.8 ltr Lotus Elise, fun, fast, thrilling and sticks like sh!t to corners
😀
[QUOTE=”Rob Rides EMTB, post: 419858, member: 1″]
Right now, the most interesting SL enduro ebike is the Transition Relay. I’d love to try that.
[/QUOTE]
I’d love that review!!
T
[QUOTE=”MOTO13, post: 419829, member: 12270″]
I want and like an 85 motor, not 60.
[/QUOTE]
Thats 40% more power man. What are you doing that you want that? videos, what do you weigh? 65 is more than enough for a 200lb male to pedal uphill with the power of two men running the motor. I love taking a lift to get to the top fast but the excitement is in the downhill. Uphill is simply a means to an end.
just don’t understand people complaining about SL ebikes. They’re awesome for fit people who like a playful bike.
[QUOTE=”BAMBAMODA, post: 419922, member: 9685″]
T
Thats 40% more power man. What are you doing that you want that? videos, what do you weigh? 65 is more than enough for a 200lb male to pedal uphill with the power of two men running the motor. I love taking a lift to get to the top fast but the excitement is in the downhill. Uphill is simply a means to an end.
just don’t understand people complaining about SL ebikes. They’re awesome for fit people who like a playful bike.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not stopping you from buying one. Hell, buy 2. But, if I get an emtb, I don’t want a half assed motor. I’ve ridden 60’s…don’t like them. I ride single track woods. 85 motors just fit my riding style. It’s like riding a MX bike that is all set up…motor work etc…then going and riding your buddies stocker. No thanks.
[QUOTE=”MOTO13, post: 419923, member: 12270″]
I’m not stopping you from buying one. Hell, buy 2. But, if I get an emtb, I don’t want a half assed motor. I’ve ridden 60’s…don’t like them. I ride single track woods. 85 motors just fit my riding style. It’s like riding a MX bike that is all set up…motor work etc…then going and riding your buddies stocker. No thanks.
[/QUOTE]
Right. Ok. Still just wanted detail why it would be better in your opinion. The only time in my experience FF was different was seated riding uphill which is pretty boring, and is just a means to an end For me at 200lbs. Downhill, power only helps if you use brakes and I am Getting good at not using them. But to each their own.
This bike doesn’t weigh 18kg. Once you put proper tires on it and pedals expect 20kg
[QUOTE=”Alexbn921, post: 419934, member: 20456″]
This bike doesn’t weigh 18kg. Once you put proper tires on it and pedals expect 20kg
[/QUOTE]
It weighs 18KG as a trail bike build, designed for trail riding. Quoted bike weights are always without pedals 👍
I also rode some light DH trails on it with stock tyres, but it’s not really designed to do that.
Why would you want to put 1.5KG of extra tyre weight on a lightweight trail ebike anyway?!
Could just add an exo+ Assegai at the front and add 350g if you need more grip.
[QUOTE=”Tubby G, post: 419907, member: 14174″]
I have both, 85Nm & 60Nm. My cheap analogy is this:
The full fat is like being behind the wheel of a 5.0 ltr Range Rover Vogue, comfortable, powerful, but heavy & a bit crap at corners
The lightweight is like being behind a wheel of a 1.8 ltr Lotus Elise, fun, fast, thrilling and sticks like sh!t to corners
😀
[/QUOTE]
Don’t forget though, a Range Rover will transport you up the bridle track to the top of Jacob’s Ladder in the Dark Peak, you’ll struggle in your Lotus. Exactly what my mate discovered on his
[QUOTE=”Rob Rides EMTB, post: 419938, member: 1″]
Why would you want to put 1.5KG of extra tyre weight on a lightweight trail ebike anyway?!
[/QUOTE]
I guess you could also say why does a lightweight trail bike need Fox 38’s…
It has 36’s
Apologies! What a div. I’ll go stand in the corner.
Both of these categories can co-exist, there is no need to try and convert the masses to one side or the other. It’s awesome that we now have more options and it’s only going to improve the tech and competition.
It felt like we were finally making progress on the elitism issues of analog vs ebike, and now its starting to happen with full fat vs SL/Mid power emtb instead!
There’s a bike out there for everyone, 5 years ago there where only a handful of proper EMTB’s, we’ve come a long way in a short time.
Had a kinesis, waste of time , motor barely had enough power to overcome weight and battery life was terrible.
23, 20, 18? Meh, wake me up up they get down to 13kg so I can ride it like a non ebike if I have to; THAT would be progress.
[QUOTE=”Doomanic, post: 419824, member: 52″]
It’s not pug ugly, are you sure it’s a Haibike?
[/QUOTE]
I was thinking at last Haibike have got someone who knows how to design a bike on the team. 😎
[QUOTE=”MOTO13, post: 419829, member: 12270″]
I want and like an 85 motor, not 60.
[/QUOTE]
Then don’t buy this , get one with an 85 in. Not every bike is designed for YOU!
I’d love one personally, unfortunately funds won’t allow for two e-mtb’s and the full fat suits the type of riding I do, and who I ride with.
It’s great there’s so much choice, not so great are the prices…
[QUOTE=”ShinySideUp, post: 420172, member: 24790″]
23, 20, 18? Meh, wake me up up they get down to 13kg so I can ride it like a non ebike if I have to; THAT would be progress.
[/QUOTE]
Meh, because there is no difference from a 54lb vs 41lb bike. I see TONS of progress!
[QUOTE=”Chicane, post: 420202, member: 13477″]
Meh, because there is no difference from a 54lb vs 41lb bike. I see TONS of progress!
[/QUOTE]
But when you have an engine behind you, or in an ebike case, underneath you, a few kilos either way seems largely irrelevant. My motorbike goes just as well loaded up with holiday camping stuff as it does with only me on it. Similarly, my ebike doesn’t seem to care that I weigh 98kgs instead of 94kgs and wouldn’t go any faster if I weighed half that since the motor cuts out at 16 mph anyway. It’s only when the engine, or battery, packs up and you have to cycle it home with actual legs that it would help to have a lighter bike but, as I said, an ebike is still heavy until it gets down to pre-ebike masses — circa 13Kg.
[QUOTE=”ShinySideUp, post: 420222, member: 24790″]
But when you have an engine behind you, or in an ebike case, underneath you, a few kilos either way seems largely irrelevant. My motorbike goes just as well loaded up with holiday camping stuff as it does with only me on it. Similarly, my ebike doesn’t seem to care that I weigh 98kgs instead of 94kgs and wouldn’t go any faster if I weighed half that since the motor cuts out at 16 mph anyway. It’s only when the engine, or battery, packs up and you have to cycle it home with actual legs that it would help to have a lighter bike but, as I said, an ebike is still heavy until it gets down to pre-ebike masses — circa 13Kg.
[/QUOTE]
There’s a HUGE difference in handling between an 18KG ebike and a the average 24KG ebike.
imagine riding your ebike with 6 litres of water strapped to your frame and how different it might feel to move around.
Honestly as Rob says the difference is huge. It doesn’t sound headline grabbing but the difference is night and day.
I’ve just gone from 2.5 years on a full fat 25kg bike to a carbon rise. With pedals/ tubeless/ mudguards / numerous mounts the bike weighed in at a disappointing ( to me) 19.5 kg .
Gates / styles and any other torture implements along the route become a pleasure compared to the nightmare of a full fat bike.
The ride is totally different and to be honest they don’t let you down on the power front or distance capabilities as you might think .
Different folks for different strokes though but I think there’s a lot of people out there like I was flogging a full fat bike around for no reason .
[QUOTE=”ShinySideUp, post: 420222, member: 24790″]
But when you have an engine behind you, or in an ebike case, underneath you, a few kilos either way seems largely irrelevant. My motorbike goes just as well loaded up with holiday camping stuff as it does with only me on it. Similarly, my ebike doesn’t seem to care that I weigh 98kgs instead of 94kgs and wouldn’t go any faster if I weighed half that since the motor cuts out at 16 mph anyway. It’s only when the engine, or battery, packs up and you have to cycle it home with actual legs that it would help to have a lighter bike but, as I said, an ebike is still heavy until it gets down to pre-ebike masses — circa 13Kg.
[/QUOTE]
You obviously haven’t tried late braking at the same point on a bike that weighs 15 pounds heavier have you, or you wouldn’t have spewed that nonsense? Then again you probably haven’t ridden a 41 pound ebike anyway, right?
[QUOTE=”Chicane, post: 420254, member: 13477″]
You obviously haven’t tried late braking at the same point on a bike that weighs 15 pounds heavier have you, or you wouldn’t have spewed that nonsense?
[/QUOTE]
Have a civil tongue please, vitriol is not funny and it’s not clever. You may be a nutter downhiller but I am a trail rider, I’m in my late sixties and any crashes are likely to result in a broken hip so I don’t tend to throw myself off cliffs in pursuit of a cheap thrill. I speak from the experience I have — however little that may be — and to someone like me, a few kilos difference in the mass of an ebike makes next to no difference. Try to understand that there are riders that expect different things from the sport of cycling and not just dismiss their comments out of hand, they are probably relevant to someone else if not you.
The 60 nm would feel pretty good to me after a year of riding a KSL.
I think this bike would be a great trail emtb but I will never buy one. Haibike hasn’t sold many bikes in the United States in over 2 years and I don’t think they will bring this bike or any of their high-end bikes to America.
I fell in love with Haibike, after owning one, but they have forsaken me. My heart is broken.
[QUOTE=”Lee Dove, post: 420180, member: 1452″]
Then don’t buy this , get one with an 85 in. Not every bike is designed for YOU!
[/QUOTE]
So who is it designed for ?.
id want a 15kg bike but with full power as i could then throw it about dh like my old santa cruz nomad i just cant do it on my 24kg haibike/tank.
problem is the prices of these things are insane now and if you add fox rad electric sus front and back could be pushing 20k. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=”ShinySideUp, post: 420269, member: 24790″]
Have a civil tongue please, vitriol is not funny and it’s not clever. You may be a nutter downhiller but I am a trail rider, I’m in my late sixties and any crashes are likely to result in a broken hip so I don’t tend to throw myself off cliffs in pursuit of a cheap thrill. I speak from the experience I have — however little that may be — and to someone like me, a few kilos difference in the mass of an ebike makes next to no difference. Try to understand that there are riders that expect different things from the sport of cycling and not just dismiss their comments out of hand, they are probably relevant to someone else if not you.
[/QUOTE]
No Nutter downhiller here. I’m just a broken up 48 year old body who was stating the facts of riding a SL ebike and responding to your original ridiculous post.
It should be pretty clear to you when Rob (who’s ridden ALL the good ebikes) and one other echoed my same thoughts, but apparently you skimmed right over the well spoken facts.
[QUOTE=”Chicane, post: 420281, member: 13477″]
No Nutter downhiller here. I’m just a broken up 48 year old body who was stating the facts of riding a SL ebike and responding to your ridiculous post.
It should be pretty clear to you when Rob (who’s ridden ALL the good ebikes) and one other echoed my same thoughts, but apparently you skimmed right over the well spoken facts.
[/QUOTE]
You really are a very rude person, your mother must be very proud.
[QUOTE=”Rob Rides EMTB, post: 420236, member: 1″]
There’s a HUGE difference in handling between an 18KG ebike and a the average 24KG ebike.
imagine riding your ebike with 6 litres of water strapped to your frame and how different it might feel to move around.
[/QUOTE]
As I said, I am a trail rider with occasional trips into town to do shopping. I carry a litre of water, a very heavy lock, and I have a kickstand, I wear a rucksack with maps and a camera in it. My expeditions (apart from the shopping) amount to riding slowly across Bodmin moor exploring the landscape, so you can understand that the weight of the bike in my case is largely irrelevant. Why is it no one can understand the recreational rider here? I have come to the conclusion that this forum is really not very inclusive for the casual MTB’er and aimed more at outright enthusiasts with very big pockets. I think I’ll take my leave and find somewhere more friendly.
You’re an administrator, please delete my account here.
[QUOTE=”ShinySideUp, post: 420287, member: 24790″]
find somewhere more friendly
[/QUOTE]
Good luck with that! Believe it or not, this is probably the cuddliest bike forum on the net. Try going on the US forums and say you have an eeb… 😮
That went well……….
Gordon
[QUOTE=”ShinySideUp, post: 420287, member: 24790″]
As I said, I am a trail rider with occasional trips into town to do shopping.
[/QUOTE]
You’re not the only casual rider here, I would put myself in that bracket. 99% of my riding is road/trail/forest/very light bike park and only the last 1% is spent doing a trip to Morzine each year.
Yes theres a lot of folk on here who may seem abrupt but I’ve learnt to live with the fact that they simply don’t take any prisoners when it comes to comments which aren’t particularly correct. You said ‘a few kilos either way seems largely irrelevant’ but this just isn’t true which is why you were jumped on.
For info I swopped bikes with my son (he has a non E Trance X2) in Morzine and the difference was literally astounding. I had gotton used to my Haibike over the previous few days and getting on his it felt like I was riding a toy. I’m not saying it was lacking in any way re suspension/overall strength but the ability to flick it about like a housefly was, lets say, liberating. And I wasn’t doing crazy stuff like the blacks either.
Of course, in your use case the difference between a few kilos won’t make much odds but that doesn’t make your statement correct.
Stick around, understand that there is indeed a lot of hardcore riders on here who will pick up on wafty comments and all will be fine. Just apologise and move on. It will all be forgotton 🙂
Edit: before anyone jumps on me too, I appreciate that a non E Trance will be a fair bit lighter than even an SL ebike but IMO my point stands.
[QUOTE=”ShinySideUp, post: 420287, member: 24790″]
As I said, I am a trail rider with occasional trips into town to do shopping. I carry a litre of water, a very heavy lock, and I have a kickstand, I wear a rucksack with maps and a camera in it. My expeditions (apart from the shopping) amount to riding slowly across Bodmin moor exploring the landscape, so you can understand that the weight of the bike in my case is largely irrelevant. Why is it no one can understand the recreational rider here? I have come to the conclusion that this forum is really not very inclusive for the casual MTB’er and aimed more at outright enthusiasts with very big pockets. I think I’ll take my leave and find somewhere more friendly.
[/QUOTE]
I’ll try and be completely neutral here.
You have to remember that forums all have degrees of etiquette. These normally aren’t written down (though some are), they’re mainly learnt from watching, reading, participating.
To try and explain your case. You’ve basically ridden into town, walked into the real ale bar with your can of Heineken and started telling everyone in there that you see no point in them drinking what they’re drinking because what you drink is perfect for you.
Several people then tried to explain the differences and the benefits for them, which you’ve ignored and then only replied to people with less patience who were offended by your attitude and lack of decorum. When you could easily have ignored them instead of the people who were patient with you.
Then, because no one in the real ale bar agrees with you that Heineken would be better for them, despite them all having tried it on multiple occasions in bars, at parties, at orgy’s, sitting alone in front of the tv or downing a 24 pack in an hour with friends, having partners who drink it regularly. You jump on your bar stool and declare the bar to be very unfriendly because no one agrees that what works for you is what works for them.
You then go on to make ridiculous statements about the whole forum not being very inclusive for the casual MTB rider and only for people with big pockets. When there are literally hundreds of threads about cheap bikes, short travel bikes, trail bikes, adventure bikes, touring bikes, cheap diy bikes and just about anything you can think of.
Anyone is always welcomed, but you can’t complain when you jump into a specific thread which is discussing a specific bike and find that the people in that thread who are interested in that bike, don’t all suddenly decide that they really only want a bike to ride to the shops on and bow down and admire your magnificent logic ?
There are numerous threads where it’s discussed if people prefer lighter, lower powered bikes or “full fat” full power bikes – that’s where you would discuss your views on the matter – not in a model specific thread.
In fairness, you aren’t the only one to jump into this thread and say bizarre things which are effectively “trolling”. More experienced members like Moto13 dived in saying he prefers an 85nm bike. I’m sure everyones very happy for him, but who cares as what’s that got to do with this bike ? Then 2wheelsnot4 asked “who is it desgned for” … ?!?! Another “why are you reading this thread, if you don’t know the answer to that question”.
To briefly explain anyway so hopefully it will put it to bed and people can stop asking pointless questions.
Some people will be coming from normal bikes and having picked up a FF bike, will just much prefer the idea of a lighter bike – they also won’t be used to FF power so will appreciate any assistance level.
Others will have FF bikes but mainly ride in Eco for example. They might normally come home with half the battery left. For those people, a bike with a smaller motor which produces as much power as they need and a smaller battery – with enough autonomy for them, is perfect.
[I]Edit : I’m not your mommy, so if your riding profile doesn’t fit with the examples stated, then hopefully you’ll have enough common sense to work that out for yourself.[/I]
Why have something heavier if you don’t need it and you do the kind of riding where you either appreciate the lighter bike from a riding point of view (it’s more engaging, it’s more manoeuvrable, it’s easier to lift over things).
And 1000 other reasons – already explained in other threads .
[QUOTE=”Zimmerframe, post: 420410, member: 4350″]
An amusing anecdote and some good sense.
[/QUOTE]
Who are you and what have you done with the real Zimmerframe?
[QUOTE=”Zimmerframe, post: 420410, member: 4350″]
Others will have FF bikes but mainly ride in Eco for example. They might normally come home with half the battery left. For those people, a bike with a smaller motor which produces as much power as they need and a smaller battery – with enough autonomy for them, is perfect.
[/QUOTE]
It is [U]not[/U] perfect for us. We ride mainly with assistance “Off” or in “Eco”. We typically come home with 75% battery left.
But.
We use FF Bosch CX4 power to get up some very high gradient hills. Then turn assistance off to come down.
😎
[QUOTE=”irie, post: 420429, member: 24232″]
It is [U]not[/U] perfect for us. We ride mainly with assistance “Off” or in “Eco”. We typically come home with 75% battery left.
But.
We use FF Bosch CX4 power to get up some very high gradient hills. Then turn assistance off to come down.
😎
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I didn’t want to write a 1000+ paragraph’s explaining every possible example. As I said there are already many threads which discuss the subject.
When you say it’s “not perfect for us” – do you mean you and your riding friends or are you trying to clump anyone with a Full Fat bike into a single group irrespective of how and where they ride ?
If you mean everyone, isn’t that the point of what I was trying to say ? EVERYONE is different. People have different fork widths, front travel, rear travel, disk sizes, wheel sizes, tyre width’s, tyre types because they ride in different places and in different ways. We don’t just say hey, you only need a 120mm fork because that’s what I use so nothing else would be more suitable for someone else ?
If you mean you and your riding friends – then again – that’s what we’re saying isn’t it ? This is a thread about this bike – if you need FF torque for your kind of riding, even if it’s not for the whole ride, then that’s what YOU need – so this bike isn’t for you. Therefore, why make a negative comment in a thread about a bike which doesn’t apply to you or your type of riding ?
Why do you turn assistance off to come down ? You have 75% battery left at the end of a ride. Your coming down so probably over the assistance limit anyway for most of it and even if there’s some slower sections and you’re in eco/tour/emtb the amount of power used will be negligible compared to a climb. You’ve got a FF EMTB, if there’s some bits where you need to pedal below the limit on the way down, why not use the motor to make those bits more fun/faster seen as you’re lugging it with you ? Your not turning it off for fitness on the way down and you’re not turning it off to save battery as you have enough to do the whole ride another 3 times over. I know everyone has different views, but I don’t think anyone every says “It’s more fun when I go slower descending” ?
I love craft beer 👍🏼
[QUOTE=”Zimmerframe, post: 420474, member: 4350″]
Sorry, I didn’t want to write a 1000+ paragraph’s explaining every possible example. As I said there are already many threads which discuss the subject.
When you say it’s “not perfect for us” – do you mean you and your riding friends or are you trying to clump anyone with a Full Fat bike into a single group irrespective of how and where they ride ?
If you mean everyone, isn’t that the point of what I was trying to say ? EVERYONE is different. People have different fork widths, front travel, rear travel, disk sizes, wheel sizes, tyre width’s, tyre types because they ride in different places and in different ways. We don’t just say hey, you only need a 120mm fork because that’s what I use so nothing else would be more suitable for someone else ?
If you mean you and your riding friends – then again – that’s what we’re saying isn’t it ? This is a thread about this bike – if you need FF torque for your kind of riding, even if it’s not for the whole ride, then that’s what YOU need – so this bike isn’t for you. Therefore, why make a negative comment in a thread about a bike which doesn’t apply to you or your type of riding ?
Why do you turn assistance off to come down ? You have 75% battery left at the end of a ride. Your coming down so probably over the assistance limit anyway for most of it and even if there’s some slower sections and your in eco/tour/emtb the amount of power used will be negligible compared to a climb. You’ve got a FF EMTB, if there’s some bits where you need to pedal below the limit on the way down, why not use the motor to make those bits more fun/faster seen as you’re lugging it with you ? Your not turning it off for fitness on the way down and you’re not turning it off to save battery as you have enough to do the whole ride another 3 times over. I know everyone has different views, but I don’t think anyone every says “It’s more fun when I go slower descending” ?
[/QUOTE]
You said …
[Quote=Zimmerframe]Others will have FF bikes but mainly ride in Eco for example. They might normally come home with half the battery left. For those people, a bike with a smaller motor which produces as much power as they need and a smaller battery – with enough autonomy for them, is perfect.[/quote]
[QUOTE=”Zimmerframe, post: 420474, member: 4350″]
Sorry, I didn’t want to write a 1000+ paragraph’s explaining every possible example. As I said there are already many threads which discuss the subject.
When you say it’s “not perfect for us” – do you mean you and your riding friends or are you trying to clump anyone with a Full Fat bike into a single group irrespective of how and where they ride ?
If you mean everyone, isn’t that the point of what I was trying to say ? EVERYONE is different. People have different fork widths, front travel, rear travel, disk sizes, wheel sizes, tyre width’s, tyre types because they ride in different places and in different ways. We don’t just say hey, you only need a 120mm fork because that’s what I use so nothing else would be more suitable for someone else ?
If you mean you and your riding friends – then again – that’s what we’re saying isn’t it ? This is a thread about this bike – if you need FF torque for your kind of riding, even if it’s not for the whole ride, then that’s what YOU need – so this bike isn’t for you. Therefore, why make a negative comment in a thread about a bike which doesn’t apply to you or your type of riding ?
Why do you turn assistance off to come down ? You have 75% battery left at the end of a ride. Your coming down so probably over the assistance limit anyway for most of it and even if there’s some slower sections and your in eco/tour/emtb the amount of power used will be negligible compared to a climb. You’ve got a FF EMTB, if there’s some bits where you need to pedal below the limit on the way down, why not use the motor to make those bits more fun/faster seen as you’re lugging it with you ? Your not turning it off for fitness on the way down and you’re not turning it off to save battery as you have enough to do the whole ride another 3 times over. I know everyone has different views, but I don’t think anyone every says “It’s more fun when I go slower descending” ?
[/QUOTE]
A lesson ^^^ in obfuscation.
[Quote] Others will have FF bikes but mainly ride in Eco for example. They might normally come home with half the battery left. For those people, a bike with a smaller motor which produces as much power as they need and a smaller battery – with enough autonomy for them, is perfect.[/quote]
There are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents..
Fin.
[QUOTE=”irie, post: 420479, member: 24232″]
There are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents..
Fin.
[/QUOTE]
Which is not what this bike is. Not what it pretends to be. Not one of the claims it makes.
So why are you in this thread going on about a bike that is EXACTLY the bike not suited to you instead of on the Rotwild R.X375 thread or something similar?
There could have been a couple of post like “Looks like a nice bike but it’s not for the way I like to ride”, and then move on. But it’s been derailed into “this bike is shit because I don’t like it…..” kind of a thread. Jeeeezzzzuuuussss! People who want info on the Haibike Lyke are going to have to wade through this crap thinking they’ll get to something useful….
Threads like this are why we can’t have anything nice……
Gordon
p.s. I’m not even looking at a Haibike Lyke myself. I already have more than one mid powered bike and more than one full fat. And I should avoid this thread (it keeps showing up in my feed) but I think the bike is interesting and I’m coming back to read in the futile hope some actual experiences with the bike pop up when all that’s really happening is a 3″ dick show off competition.
[QUOTE=”irie, post: 420479, member: 24232″]
here are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents..
[/QUOTE]
I suspect they are very much in the minority amongst eBikers in general. I wasn’t aware Chichester had any big hills, is it the South’s answer to the Golfie then?
[QUOTE=”flash, post: 420511, member: 1974″]
but I think the bike is interesting and I’m coming back to read in the futile hope some actual experiences with the bike pop up when all that’s really happening is a 3″ dick show off competition.
[/QUOTE]
Me too! I find these new lighter ebikes fascinating, and I am very curious as to how the manufacturers are managing to get closer and closer to my ideal E bike with just a bit more power but keeping it below 40 pounds total. It is obviously coming and the anticipation is fun.
Not sucking up here but Rob’s evaluations just seem to be more informative for us punters than those of the magazines. These are great times indeed. The technology seems to be progressing faster than I ever thought it would.
[QUOTE=”irie, post: 420479, member: 24232″]
A lesson ^^^ in obfuscation.
[/QUOTE]
“[I]the action of making something obscure, unclear, or unintelligible[/I]”
My apologies for not covering the many thousands of different riding profiles in great detail in my “brief explanation” (again – as I already explained once the desire to not do it and fill the thread with a discussion which already exists elsewhere).
Strangely though, it seems you did understand as you said it didn’t apply you “us” .
[QUOTE=”irie, post: 420429, member: 24232″]
It is [U]not[/U] perfect for us
[/QUOTE]
Which I didn’t understand and took to the time to question .. because it was a “A lesson ^^^ in obfuscation” ..
As the Mods will no doubt have to clean this thread anyway because it’s full of so much self obsessed bullcrap .. we can waste some time and screenspace to try and understand your requirements more – though I have to guess much of it because you’ve been consistently unclear in your answers or have just not responded to questions anyway.
You say :
[QUOTE=”irie, post: 420479, member: 24232″]
There are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents..
Fin.
[/QUOTE]
Glad to see there’s no arrogance there and that your situation applies to all.
Did you watch the review of the bike or read any of the other threads about the Fazua 60 or other bikes with it (Pivot SL) ?
You have a 430wh battery. So for you yes, it’s too large. You use 25% of 500wh (you don’t need a big battery so presumably wouldn’t be dumb enough to waste money/end up with a heavier bike than necessary on a 625/700/750wh bike). Your ideal is a bike with a 125wh battery. Believe it or not, MOST people who want an EMTB do NOT want a 125wh battery.
You do know that a bike exists which actually fits your requirements exactly, you should buy it, then you’ll be happy, so you don’t have to go into vegetarian restaurants and complain to everyone that you need steak.
The Fulger Mula. With a 90nm Polini motor. A weight of 20kg with two internal batteries a 504wh and a 125wh internal extender. The option also exists to run 250wh and 380wh external batteries. You can run the bike with just the 125wh internal battery in place.
You mainly ride in Off/Eco. So you’re presumably very fit as you’ve spent all that money on an EMTB yet seek your pleasure in mainly riding a 25kg bike with the power off. It’s an EMTB, so again presumably, you’re off road for most of that.
However “There are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents”. This is where I get confused trying to understand your rides – yes, we’re all different and ride in different places and in different way – the difference is that I’m trying to understand your rides and not just assuming that how I ride is better/more relevant to the rest of the world than how anyone else rides.
For an example :
This is on a steep climb (otherwise I wouldn’t be going so damned slow and you can see cadence is still reasonable so I’m not just grandma riding it up and burning the motor out) on a 500wh Specialized Kenevo with a brose 1.3. I was one handed taking the screen capture so pedal power dropped off which in turn reduced motor power – so it’s not peak.
[ATTACH type=”full” alt=”1662367266819.png”]96437[/ATTACH]
I’ve already used 25% (125wh) of battery in 6.66 km’s and 328m of climbing. Within those 6km’s were 3 descents. So my 125wh actually only gave me 3km’s of riding. It’s a good example as it fits with your average ride and the theory that you NEED a full power motor for your climbs ? You can see that pans out with the predicted range of another 9km’s on the remaining 375wh of battery assuming I continue to make descents. I’m pulling 94.11 wh a KM so If I only continue up, I actually have less than 4km’s of riding left in the battery and if I’d just ridden up that hill the whole battery would have given me a 5km ride.
This is obviously the downside to a full power motor if you use it in Turbo/Boost – it produces a lot of power, but equally – uses a lot of power, hence why most have/want/need a larger battery . I have every confidence the Haibike would also make the same climb, I’d just be going slower.
So as not to be accused of anything by only giving one example on my road to understanding, here is another example going the other way.
This is presumably more like one of your rides ?
[ATTACH type=”full” alt=”1662368126647.png”]96439[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH type=”full” alt=”1662368251228.png”]96440[/ATTACH]
Focus Jam 2 with a Bosch Gen 4 and a 625 battery. About 10-15% battery left. I did stop for coffee’s twice, food once, and beers twice so it wasn’t a superhuman effort.
Riding in Eco and Off – but mainly trying to ride over the assist limit to obtain as much range and elevation as possible to “stretch out” the battery range. (Which was actually a stupid and pointless test as if you ride over the limit or with the battery off then the actual potential range is infinite).
For me personally, it wasn’t a “fun” ride. It was painful, exhausting and my bum hurt. Actually everything hurt and whilst I’d wanted to do 5000m of climbing on one battery just to be dumb, I have zero intention of doing it again.
Therefore again, pretty much anything is possible either way with any type of bike/motor setup – it’s more about how fast you will go, how much energy you will have to expend, how painful or fun it will be (if you don’t find painful pedalling to be fun) As this bike has 12 second peaks of about 450w and averages about 300, assuming you’re happy to use a lower gear on climbs and learn to use the boost just for one second here, 4 seconds there, 2 seconds there – then I don’t see why it still can’t actually ride any trail a FF bike could ride – it just won’t be as quick or “easy”.
For anyone who’s not read it, this is an interesting post from the Pivot SL thread (same motor/battery).
[URL unfurl=”true”]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/threads/2023-pivot-shuttle-sl-super-light.29271/post-420520[/URL]
Interesting that in about 2 years the threads have gone from pure hating everything about 50NM lightweight bikes to actually now discussing them openly as the future trail bike.
Geez guys, we don’t ride our downhill bikes on trail based rides because they are rubbush, how about us all accepting that the lightweight trail based EBike is actually designed to do a specific job, ride trails and not Enduro and downhill.
[QUOTE=”Waynemarlow, post: 420600, member: 7115″]
Interesting that in about 2 years the threads have gone from pure hating everything about 50NM lightweight bikes to actually now discussing them openly as the future trail bike.
[/QUOTE]
I for one am clearly guilty of obfuscation again 🙂
I still hate them !!!! :mad::mad::mad::rolleyes: But I agree there’s merit to discussion and don’t understand why the Omnivores, Carnivores, Pescatarians, Flexitarians feel the need to go into a Vegetarian restaurant and complain ? I can see why you’d go in if you were curious, interested, starving, liked it.
[QUOTE=”Zimmerframe, post: 420604, member: 4350″]
I can see why you’d go in if you were curious, interested, starving, liked it.
[/QUOTE]
Bit like my mothers advice on marriage, “always try on before you buy”. Wish a few more here would actually get off their computer keyboards and go and try, before commenting 😎
Where the Sherrif when you need him 🙄
[QUOTE=”Moe Ped, post: 420653, member: 8976″]
Where the Sherrif when you need him 🙄
[/QUOTE]
Have you reported the post that requires the Sheriff’s attention? AFAIK, he/she/they/them is/are a real person/people so can’t be everywhere all at once.
[QUOTE=”Moe Ped, post: 420653, member: 8976″]
Where the Sherrif when you need him 🙄
[/QUOTE]
They’ve been quietly watching behind the scenes in amazement. Pondering the best options to deal with it without putting any noses out of joint.
We were hoping general intervention from other members would nudge the thread back on track and elected not to tidy the thread and ban anyone from it.
For now though, even though we always like deleting [USER=4350]@Zimmerframe[/USER]’s posts, he has for once said a few relevant points (though it was getting quite boring) which saves me repeating them .
[QUOTE=”Moderator, post: 420666, member: 10977″]
he has for once said a few relevant points
[/QUOTE]
A lesson ^^^ in obfuscation.
Has Zim morphed into G*** 😉
[QUOTE=”Waynemarlow, post: 420675, member: 7115″]
Has Zim morphed into G*** 😉
[/QUOTE]
No, his posts are way too long
[QUOTE=”Jackware, post: 420676, member: 1617″]
No, his posts are way too long
[/QUOTE]
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Can anyone confirm the bottom bracket height, checked haibike but they just list the drop, on other review says it is very high but not what it is.
[QUOTE=”crazyknowledge, post: 421189, member: 8871″]
Can anyone confirm the bottom bracket height, checked haibike but they just list the drop, on other review says it is very high but not what it is.
[/QUOTE]
It’s around 345mm – I briefly measured it when in garage.
Cheers Rob, doesn’t seem much different to most bikes currently out there, did it feel high when riding ?
[QUOTE=”crazyknowledge, post: 421193, member: 8871″]
Cheers Rob, doesn’t seem much different to most bikes currently out there, did it feel high when riding ?
[/QUOTE]
Not really at all.
I like the look of this it’s just that cable routing that really puts me off, on the top spec one reckon they could have got SRAM AXS for the same price as a fox transfer and xtr , would love to try one of these lightweight bikes, the new transition on the way looks stunning and with a bit more travel
85nm. for a very light weight person yes it would be worth while, anyone else…..maybe not
[QUOTE=”JAC0B86, post: 421984, member: 26108″]
85nm. for a very light weight person yes it would be worth while, anyone else…..maybe not
[/QUOTE]
I’m guessing I won’t be the only person reading this and asking the question :
“What ?”
Sounds like another vote for 85nm while shit canning a lightweight
[QUOTE=”Christian, post: 422056, member: 2329″]
Sounds like another vote for 85nm while shit canning a lightweight
[/QUOTE]
It just didn’t make sense though ?!? He said 85nm is ok if you were a light person ?? I tried to work out if it was a typo, but it’s his third post and his first post said he didn’t know how much torque his bike had (trek rail) and he was an ebike noob – so it seems like a very illogical and ill informed statement to make with no experience ?
He is an Aussie though and you lot can be a bit weird ! 🤪 :oops:;)
Post pub jibberish then?
[QUOTE=”Zimmerframe, post: 422064, member: 4350″]
It just didn’t make sense though ?!? He said 85nm is ok if you were a light person ?? I tried to work out if it was a typo, but it’s his third post and his first post said he didn’t know how much torque his bike had (trek rail) and he was an ebike noob – so it seems like a very illogical and ill informed statement to make with no experience ?
He is an Aussie though and you lot can be a bit weird ! 🤪 :oops:;)
[/QUOTE]
Don’t knock weird until you try it. Could be worse. Could be *normal*…
Gordon