Shimano interview - all my questions about their motors

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I apologize, I did not write an article based on this this interview. It was just too long. You'll have to suffer through all the 24 minutes of video to catch my interview with Nick, MTB Product Manager for Shimano America.

We talk about ebike motors in general, and we talk about the new EP8 (EP801) and the EP6. How is an ebike motor certified? How do they determine maximum torque? How long is an emtb motor supposed to last? Will Shimano make serviceable motors? What are their thoughts on motor overrun? And much more!

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knut7
Knut Nes
Main editor at emtbforums.com and owner of emtb.no.
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Comments

volts
Thanks for the interview. I think it's super interesting what they are doing with autoshifting, but I have had my last Shimano motor.
Never again.
I feel that they don't stand behind their products.
They don't sell parts for it to be serviceable after warranty runs out, and you can't upgrade frames with new motors.
You best bet is to put on a bafang motor on it when the motor Shimano inevitable breaks because of the bearings or the cogs whichever goes first.
I was also very annoyed with the rattle and noise of the EP8.
 
Kingerz
"Why do they break so often" is the only question. To have asked for precise failure rates, which are 10-30% anecdotally.
 
B
I wish you had pressed him on why they refuse to allow anyone to repair their motor.
His answer was vague politician style word-salad!
Most of us don't have the luxury of a 5 yr warranty or a spare 1000 lying around to replace the motor each time a bearing or seal eventually wears out.
 
KTMJack
billium said:
I wish you had pressed him on why they refuse to allow anyone to repair their motor.
His answer was vague politician style word-salad!
Most of us don't have the luxury of a 5 yr warranty or a spare 1000 lying around to replace the motor each time a bearing or seal eventually wears out.
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One year you need to throw out 1000 for a new motor that is wrong and Shimano does not even have replacement motors available so 6 months you might get a new motor
 
Mr-EPIC-3
So I guess buy an eMTB with a Shimano motor, keep it for 2 years once the warranty runs out sell the eMTB for half of what it cost new and buy new eMTB, great sales model. I would like to know what Shimano does with all of the returned warranty motors.
 
robbydobs
My Shimano powered bike has been at the dealer for 2 months waiting for Madison to look at the motor for failed bearings. If it was serviceable it could have just had the bearings replaced the same day. Never again!
 
Mr-EPIC-3
robbydobs said:
My Shimano powered bike has been at the dealer for 2 months waiting for Madison to look at the motor for failed bearings. If it was serviceable it could have just had the bearings replaced the same day. Never again!
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You would think that any eMTB moto should be serviceable, at least bearings and gears.
 
B
I am in the market for a new bike and the Canyon Spectral On would be high on my list but the Shimano motor is a deal-beaker for me. I refuse to buy a motor that is not fixable.
 
B
billium said:
I am in the market for a new bike and the Canyon Spectral On would be high on my list but the Shimano motor is a deal-beaker for me. I refuse to buy a motor that is not fixable.
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That is why I turned my back at the shimano emtb and decided to DIYe-mtb as a next bike.
I like the way power is delivered by EP8 but lack of support, no parts, availability, price and hassle to get the new motor simply = NO NO NO NO NO NO once more NOO MORE.
 
volts
KTMJack said:
One year you need to throw out 1000 for a new motor that is wrong and Shimano does not even have replacement motors available so 6 months you might get a new motor
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Often you can't get a new motor either. It can be extremely hard to get hold of one, especially if you bought the bike used. So now you have a frame that you can just throw out with the garbage.
Never get a used bike with a Shimano motor. But also never get a new one with a Shimano motor.
 
Mr-EPIC-3
I have had 2 Shimano E7000 motors (4000+ miles) and 1 EP8 motor (2700 miles), no issues with any of the motors. I usally ride in ECO or TRIAL mode only, on a steep climb will I use BOOST. But the fact that Shimano doesn't allow a LBS to service thire motors just doesn't make sense.
 
volts
Mr-EPIC-3 said:
I have had 2 Shimano E7000 motors (4000+ miles) and 1 EP8 motor (2700 miles), no issues with any of the motors. I usally ride in ECO or TRIAL mode only, on a steep climb will I use BOOST. But the fact that Shimano doesn't allow a LBS to service thire motors just doesn't make sense.
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Mine ran for 3500k+ kms too. I was pretty OK with it although unhappy about the noise but I knew that when I got it. The dealbreaker for me was the end of warranty support, or lack thereof. I felt like I had to sell it to avoid the trouble that will eventually come to anything with bearings and cogs in it.
 
D
Getting anxiety about my EP8 on my Heckler now, absolutely love the bike, suits me really well but now they've discontinued the EP8 I'm anxious about problems in the future. May put it back to stock and sell for a Levo, at least any motor problems are turned around quickly with Spesh.
 
V
Shimano Australia (not a distributor) refused my warranty claim for E010 errors. Then the warranty expired, and they now say the product is dead at 2400kms and just over 2 years. They refuse to offer a repair service, and refuse to offer serviceability for a relevant period of time in violation of the Australian Trade Practices Act of 1974 Section 74. Shimano is a disgrace to the biking community, this level of arrogance and not caring about the very core customers who have loyally given them profits year after year for decades is a disgrace. They treat bike shops like they're holier than the Vatican. I will NEVER again buy a new bike with a Shimano motor, nor will my children, or their children. This level of arrogance and defiance of warranty and consumer law cannot be forgotten - Shimano ARE Evil!
 
Mr-EPIC-3
Vondo said:
Shimano Australia (not a distributor) refused my warranty claim for E010 errors. Then the warranty expired, and they now say the product is dead at 2400kms and just over 2 years. They refuse to offer a repair service, and refuse to offer serviceability for a relevant period of time in violation of the Australian Trade Practices Act of 1974 Section 74. Shimano is a disgrace to the biking community, this level of arrogance and not caring about the very core customers who have loyally given them profits year after year for decades is a disgrace. They treat bike shops like they're holier than the Vatican. I will NEVER again buy a new bike with a Shimano motor, nor will my children, or their children. This level of arrogance and defiance of warranty and consumer law cannot be forgotten - Shimano ARE Evil!
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You would think that your LBS would want your biz and would help you out with getting a EP6 or EP801 motor at cost for your existing eMTB or a discount on new eMTB:/
 
V
Mr-EPIC-3 said:
You would think that your LBS would want your biz and would help you out with getting a EP6 or EP801 motor at cost for your existing eMTB or a discount on new eMTB:/
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True, the shop did offer a new eMTB at cost and suggested I part out my 2 year old carbon bike. Truly, a great solution for the environment and a perfectly fine mountain bike (excluding the motor)...!? In retrospect that may have been the best way forward however I would still be thousands in the deficit after giving away my high end bike parts for pennies on the dollar.

As for parts, the Shimano rep put together a quote, assuming they could use an adapter to the wiring harness, it was essentially $3k AUD to upgrade to the EP800. HOWEVER, the caveat is that the EP8 does not fit ALL E8000 frames - in particular carbon frames and Norco has known issues converting from E8000 to EP8 - so they said the $3K would be at my own risk!
 
Mr-EPIC-3
Vondo said:
True, the shop did offer a new eMTB at cost and suggested I part out my 2 year old carbon bike. Truly, a great solution for the environment and a perfectly fine mountain bike (excluding the motor)...!? In retrospect that may have been the best way forward however I would still be thousands in the deficit after giving away my high end bike parts for pennies on the dollar.

As for parts, the Shimano rep put together a quote, assuming they could use an adapter to the wiring harness, it was essentially $3k AUD to upgrade to the EP800. HOWEVER, the caveat is that the EP8 does not fit ALL E8000 frames - in particular carbon frames and Norco has known issues converting from E8000 to EP8 - so they said the $3K would be at my own risk!
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At $3k to fix with no warranty, I would just look for a good deal on a new eMTB. As others have mention doesn't sound like Shimano hasn't done a good job on backward compatibilities with the older system. Went I got my frist eMTB about 5 years ago I knew it was like buying a PC back in the late 80's, the technology is moving so fast any eMTB you buy today will be old tech in 1 to 2 years:(
 
volts
Vondo said:
True, the shop did offer a new eMTB at cost and suggested I part out my 2 year old carbon bike. Truly, a great solution for the environment and a perfectly fine mountain bike (excluding the motor)...!? In retrospect that may have been the best way forward however I would still be thousands in the deficit after giving away my high end bike parts for pennies on the dollar.

As for parts, the Shimano rep put together a quote, assuming they could use an adapter to the wiring harness, it was essentially $3k AUD to upgrade to the EP800. HOWEVER, the caveat is that the EP8 does not fit ALL E8000 frames - in particular carbon frames and Norco has known issues converting from E8000 to EP8 - so they said the $3K would be at my own risk!
Click to expand...
Yeah this is exactly why I think no one should every buy bikes with Shimano motors. They do not stand behind their product, and once your motor needs service (remember, everything needs to go to service) you can end up with a dead frame. Shimano does this knowingly, and they don't care. They pretend to care about the environment with green slogans and pictures of trees, but it's a facade. If they cared about any of that, they would care about what happens after warranty expiry and let people repair easily and have shops help customers with good products that last. But they don't because they are utter and complete careless for anything except profit.

Just sell parts and give dealers the tools to help customers! What is so difficult?
 
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