Which SL Ebike for enduro riding ?

Inde_Si said:

I've seen the new rise, but that's totally out of my budget range (for the moment) .. I hope they'll make cheaper options like an alloy model or something.

I'm gonna wait and see, I think we will see more release like this in coming months, I'm not in a hurry I'm waiting a warranty frame in order to sell my crafty.

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There are some great deals out there right now for the 2023 Orbea Rise. They do have alloy framed models. They are the “H” models. I just got a 2023 H10 Rise for less than $5K, US. I had a 2021 M10 that I paid more than $8500. I really like the new one, because of the larger battery.

Well it seems to me that you want a trail bike not an enduro bike.
I'm in the opposite camp to you. I hate under biking and roll with more travel rather than less.

So I am of little help. My advice would be buy an actual enduro e bike if you want to go enduro riding.

Streddaz said:

Yes but @sethimus mentioned the Kenevo SL, not the full powered Kenevo. It's about the same weight as the EXe and Trance but has more travel. While the Levo SL is a long travel trail bike the Kenvo SL is more of an Enduro bike.

To be honest, any of the bikes you have listed would be fine for Enduro riding.

I have a first gen Levo SL and I've raced it in several Enduros, but I do find that it is very hard to beat a full powered bike unless the descent is pure gravity, with the only pedalling above the speed cut. As soon as there are some slow corners, or an uphill section, you will struggle to compete against a full powered bike. Still good fun to try and I still do beat a lot of riders on full powered bikes and the lighter bike is much more poppy and playful to ride.

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Your take is the same as mine. While I don't race MTB/EMTB enduros on my Gen II Trek Rail 7, I do ride where we have state circuit dirt motorcycle enduros. I don't find the weight or power...used exclusively on Turbo...to be difficult to manage at all even in tight terrain. This is my first full 29'er bike, and I thought it would be sluggish handling and slow turning. It ain't. My last bikes were a 2003 Santa Cruz Bullit and a 2008 SC Nomad...both 26" wheels but with the front eventually being modified to accept a 27.5 wheel.

I've been amazed at how flickable and agile this bike is. Maybe because I also ride dirt motorcycles, I don't find the Rail to be hard to handle at all. Plus, I'll add something else. I kind of hate really light weight MTB's/EMTB's even when I was pedal-only. I find them to get deflected too easily and somewhat skittish. My Bullit and Nomad were awesome pedal-only bikes, and they were still flickable but very stable. I find the same to be true with my Rail, and maybe even a little better because there seems to be no penalty for the weight when you have pedal assist.

Hey...people are different, and I get that. However, I see little to no penalty with these full power, longer travel emtb's like the Rail and many others in that category.

Dax said:

I spent a day demoing a Shuttle SL, ELyte 140, ELyte 150, Repeater and e150 with some mates, doing back to back comparisons of the Bosch and Fazua. Unfortunately Transition hadn’t bothered to bring any spare batteries for the Relays and they were all flat by 11am, so we didn’t get to test one. With hindsight I should have taken one without a battery.

We all noticed the drag on the Fazua and were impressed how the Bosch SX wasn’t far enough behind the full fats to care about. I’ve got about 1000km on my KSL now, so reasonably familiar with that motor too.

The pivot was definitely the nicest frame, was just fantastic to ride, but was let down by the motor, lack of AXS and the price tag. Roughly £3k more than the elyte 150 was a lot of money given the compromises. Since then I’ve done a few more miles on the elyte and remain impressed, it was happy towing a mates kids up a hill the other day, but it’s also a nice descender. I prefer the ksl for the riding I do, but would be hard to turn down that Bosch motor if I was buying today.

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I can only imagine there was something wrong with the Pivot you tested. Pivot looks to be out of his budget anyway so he should look at the Jam2 SL in the slack setting or even the Heckler SL.

The Fazua I rode and couldn't feel any drag. Less drag and noise than the Specialised. Also fealt twice as torquey than the Spec SL.

I know the Bosch is good but it's also bulkier, noisier with rattle and as mentioned only makes decent power when peddling hard.

The Levo SL has a ton of great reviews and could probably pick a second gen up used.

OZ-E said:

I can only imagine there was something wrong with the Pivot you tested. Pivot looks to be out of his budget anyway so he should look at the Jam2 SL in the slack setting or even the Heckler SL.

The Fazua I rode and couldn't feel any drag. Less drag and noise than the Specialised. Also fealt twice as torquey than the Spec SL.

I know the Bosch is good but it's also bulkier, noisier with rattle and as mentioned only makes decent power when peddling hard.

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It might have been broken, but asking around here shows Fazua have drag when pedalling with no assist. I’m not convinced it’s much more torquey than Specilized SL. Maybe a little but not as much as the marketing suggests.

Didn’t notice any rattle from the Bosch motors (lightweight or full fat). Bosch gets a bit noisy at high cadence under load, but still nowhere near as bad as Specilized SL1.

Dax said:

I was disappointed with the drag on the Fazua with the motor turned off when I tested a Shuttle SL, it was way worse than the Bosch or SX or Specilized SL which you can happily pedal with the motor off. With the Fazua you could always feel the drag.

Bosch SX blows away Fazua for power too, it’s obviously a generation on from the rest of the SL motors.

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There is something strange with engagement going on with the Fazua 60 motor. When I try and shut the motor off and pedal it's a total bear, lots of drag.

But if the bike is turned off AND stopped, maybe even reversing the cranks for a moment, it has about 5 watts of drag, basically nothing. Feels just like a normal bike really.

The Levo SL has absurdly short chainstays and a slack STA in the larger sizes. I think Spesh really missed the mark on this one.

Watching my riding buddy try and climb on his was painful. He's a big guy on the S5 and his butt seemed to be behind the rear axle. Although he is a great rider, on a moderately steep pitch, he just couldn't keep the front end on the ground going where he wanted it to.

That bike needs another 10-15mm CS length and probably 2' steeper STA.

I haven't ridden the Bosch SX but it's wider, louder, smaller battery, a bit weaker & can be spotted easily from outside the bike.

Because of these traits I think the F60 pips it pretty easily.

The Relay isn't as heavy as one might think once you normalize for the spec sheet. It's getting some penalty for the cheap spec, the extra long dropper, the bash guard & really big geo. I doubt a L Relay frame weighs more than .5# than an S5 Levo SL frame for example. It's just the geo and the other parts on it that can add up.

My XL Relay with dual inserts, dual coil suspension & tools and pedals on board weighs 44.4#s btw, but it was a cautious build.

I really love that bike.

Suns_PSD said:

I haven't ridden the Bosch SX but it's wider, louder, smaller battery, a bit weaker

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Based on what? From riding the two side by side, the Bosch is a decent bit more powerful and similar noise, maybe a bit quieter.

Suns_PSD said:

can be spotted easily from outside the bike.

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I hadn’t really taken onboard how subtle the pivot is, until I sent the photo to a bunch of mates and they all asked why I was riding a non e-bike.

Suns_PSD said:

Because of these traits I think the F60 pips it pretty easily.

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Riding the two side by side, the Bosch blows the F60 away. It feels like it’s a generation newer than the competition. The F60 feels closer to the Specilized SL in power terms than the Bosch, which would be a tougher one to call and I’d put down to how much I like the frame…which in the case of pivot is a LOT.

I've never ridden the Bosch SX (or even seen one) but am going off of reviews that I have read from people that have ridden both. I do see upon rereading that the Bosch can offer more peak power, at higher cadences. For me, with a 400 watt battery, I don't consider that an important distinction. I do see at least one review that says the Bosch SX has class leading low noise. This does matter to me, a great deal in fact. Fortunately, I don't even hear my F60 while riding.

That said, if I found the ideal bike that was Bosch equipped I would not mind.

Suns_PSD said:

Nunca he montado el Bosch SX (ni siquiera he visto uno), pero me baso en las reseñas que he leído de personas que han montado ambos. Al releer veo que Bosch puede ofrecer más potencia máxima, a cadencias más altas. Para mí, con una batería de 400 vatios, no considero que sea una distinción importante. Veo al menos una reseña que dice que el Bosch SX tiene un bajo nivel de ruido líder en su clase. Esto me importa mucho, de hecho. Afortunadamente, ni siquiera escucho mi F60 mientras conduzco.

Dicho esto, si encontrara la bicicleta ideal equipada con Bosch, no me importaría.

https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/motor/bosch-performance-sx-e-bike-motor-review

https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/electric-bikes/pivot-shuttle-sl-29-team-xtr-e-bike-review

https://ebike-mtb.com/es/fazua-ride-60-review/

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I have about 15 rides on my Relay 29" front and rear. At first I struggled in the corners. For me this bike likes allot of front end pressure once I figured that out tight corners became fun but I still struggled with confidence. I now have 4 rides with a Vorsprung Smashpot spring kit and this gave me confidence along with getting the bike balanced front and rear. I can now rail tight corners but I have to be on it. The relay generates allot of speed and doesn't get hung up on rocks and roots. Still adjusting to the speed it carries. I have damn near ate Sh$t a couple of times. Old Bike Intense Carbine set up heavy for down hill fun.

This is my first ebike and have been blown up on how light but heavy it rides. Light as I can hit jumps and move it around heavy as in how it wants to carry speed into corners. Motor I read all the horror stories so far its working great and if if breaks I can buy a new for for $600.00 sounds like a motor swap is easy.

MVC said:

This is my first ebike and have been blown up on how light but heavy it rides. Light as I can hit jumps and move it around heavy as in how it wants to carry speed into corners. Motor I read all the horror stories so far its working great and if if breaks I can buy a new for for $600.00 sounds like a motor swap is easy.

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Bolded has been the biggest surprise to me, albeit on a Canyon Strive. I had to go back and mess with the cockpit on my regular bike to try and find the agility the Canyon has. I was not expecting it to be so nimble as far as turning.